Hello everyone and welcome back. I am super excited to welcome back to the podcast today, Shannon Cohn. Cue the sparkles and the glitter. I can’t help it, I’m so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah, so for all of you listening, if you haven’t listened to the first round when Shannon came on the podcast, do take some time to go back and listen to that.

Shannon Cohn (00:09)

Hi. Of course, it’s an honor.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (00:31)

And for those of you who do not know her yet, here’s just a little short snippet of all of her amazingness. Shannon is a filmmaker, also an attorney if you didn’t know, and quite the social movement builder. She has worked across multiple continents concerning gender equity and health. Her new PBS documentary, Below the Belt, which moved me to tears again and again and again when I watched it. It was executive produced by Hillary Clinton, Senator Orrin Hatch, and Rosario Dawson. And it approaches women’s health and specifically endometriosis as a social justice issue. And that should hit us all just like right to the core, right to the soul. Shannon’s films are catalyzing tools for multifaceted social impact plans that create meaningful changes in women’s health, long overdue. This includes increasing research funding, federal policy changes, and medical education initiatives. All of those things are equally important and also increasing public awareness. Shannon recently co-taught a bioethics class at Harvard Medical School in 2023, utilizing Below the Belt. And the film has been screened at over 20 medical schools, including Stanford, Columbia, et cetera, and many universities around the world. Shannon’s previous film, Endo What? was called the first step in the plan for change by Newsweek and film of the year by the Guardian. Before Shannon was a filmmaker, she practiced international law and was part of the team that prosecuted the Enron Corporation and the largest white collar crime investigation in FBI history. Whoa. All right. Welcome, Shannon.

Shannon Cohn (02:16)

Hi, thank you.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (02:19)

Okay, so in our first chat together, we talked about your inspiration, your own journey with Endo and where that came from. And having screened the film myself, I’m wondering how your personal experience kind of shaped the stories that you chose to highlight in the film.

Shannon Cohn (02:43)

Hmm, yes. Well, I think that anyone who’s listening right now that’s walked the endo journey or any type of chronic condition journey understands truth when they see it. They understand and they recognize that shared experience. And that’s what I look for and so many people I’ve talked to and so many women I’ve interviewed over the years, it’s been so incredible and heartening and infuriating and all of the things that we know, know, involved with endometriosis care, for example. But especially with those four, these four women who we chose to really follow and go deep with them, each had such incredible, first of all, incredible bravery and letting a film crew into their lives and their most intimate moments, but also had something going on specifically at that point in time that I think we all experience in our journey. And it provided an opportunity to really highlight that aspect of our journey.

With Jenna who is an RN, it was really about being believed, know, and going into frontline providers offices or the emergency room and communicating symptoms and, you know, not getting a satisfactory response or realizing that maybe when they took their male partner or someone else with them that they were listened to, you know, differently and how, you know, a lot of times females, female pain, pain, you know, and symptoms are maybe minimized or dismissed in a way that really comes to light when we have, you know, someone else in the room with us. With Emily, it was really about being an adolescent and how confusing and scary that is when you’re so young and, you know, in your youth in a position of, you know, disempowerment and understanding, well, wait a second, adults actually don’t have all the answers, but what does that mean for me when we have this confusing disease where treatment protocols are not clear? And with Laura, it was really about finding expert care and what that is, the toll that that takes on someone and their relationships and the choices they make with their job and their career and how endo impacts all of that. And finally with Kyung, it was really about fertility and how we all have all these plans for our lives about how things will develop. I think we also all know that things don’t actually, I mean, rarely work out that way, no matter what it is. But what does it mean when it’s endometriosis that throws you that curve ball and your fertility is compromised? So yes, such gratitude to the four of them for trusting us with their stories and their caregivers. And it was such an honor, really.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (05:47)

Yeah, I, you’re, when you told each of their stories again in these short snippets, I was reliving the emotions that I felt, as I watched the film for the first time. And I never, didn’t tell you this the first time we interviewed, cause I don’t think I actually had a formal diagnosis yet.

But the first time I watched the film, I didn’t. And I was sitting there watching their stories and feeling some of those same feelings of when I was 16 and the whole issue started. But then because of where I lived and low health literacy of providers and of the people who trying to do their best around me, it was all swept under the rug. And all the way through the fertility journey of the 20s and 30s and until now and so I didn’t get to say the first time around that I actually didn’t get a formal diagnosis until last year so it took my whole life essentially.

A lot of women say it was 20, it was 30, it was 40 years. I had lived their stories through an entire lifetime just to finally get to a breaking point of being in the ER and going in and going, look, I know this is probably endometriosis, so don’t gaslight me. I just want to know that it’s not catastrophic. I don’t want your pain meds. Just make sure it’s not catastrophic. And it’s horrible that you have to get to that situation where even as a healthcare provider and going through training and everything, you can still get medically gaslit, you know, and there’s a certain level of like medical misogyny that goes with that and, you know, research dollars being held and not used, you know, on women’s research, et cetera you know, your film had such a massive impact on me. I, it’s such a huge emotional heaviness too, at the same time that I’m wondering, I have all these feelings, right? How do you take care of yourself when you’re dealing with such a heavy subject matter?

Shannon Cohn (07:45)

Well, first, thank you for sharing that.

Secondly, I think it’s the way that we all try to take care of ourselves, like really trying to create space for ourselves. Sometimes some days it’s easier than others. Some moments, it literally is moment to moment sometimes when someone asks, how are you doing? I can say great one moment and then an hour later, something physically hits or emotionally hits or stress. it’s something we all kind of manage, but I have, it has forced me, I think, to be more intelligent. about creating that space and making sure I have time to rest, for example, you know, in between travel, because we’ve been traveling so much with the release of the film. And then, yes, emotionally too. And also, like I have endometriosis, you know, I still deal with symptoms. It’s a lot better than it has been in the past, but I still have them. So there’s that component as well. As you know, you can understand when we have like the micro level of like our own, you know, individual journey with the disease, but we’re trying to advocate or we’re trying to work in this field in some way, it’s daunting, you know? And I will say some days are easier than others, but it’s like some days I take a baby step forward and then rest, and then other days I do feel like taking a few leaps, you know? But the idea is to keep, you know, at least leaning forward, you know, so that we can keep, I can keep going in the right direction, so yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (09:12)

Yeah, yeah, I have utilized and really appreciated a lot of colleagues work, like I think it’s Kristin Neff’s work on self compassion. Being gentle with yourself on the days that you know you need that, but also realizing that not every day is going to be a day where I’m gonna feel like, or we’re gonna feel like a two mile run or a two mile walk or a four mile hike or whatever, and realizing that’s okay. And I think part of that is also our chronic and persistent and pervasive grind and hustle culture too. So there’s multiple cultural influences layered in that we have to de-layer as women and people with endo.

Shannon Cohn (10:20)

Yeah, I think I’m constantly fighting against that or like the guilt of I’m not super productive or whatever that means, you know, a certain day or morning. And I think as I’ve gotten older, I’ve kind of given myself a bit more grace in that department. took a while. But now over time and my body just finally saying, listen, I can’t do it. You know, like, you know, we can we can only go so far. I can only take you so far in this condition. So I guess with some maturity and just some hard, you know, hard learned lessons, I’ve, yes, I’ve learned this idea of self compassion as well. And I’m so grateful. I’m so grateful that I’m that I, you know, I’m accepting that and giving myself that space when needed.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (11:01)

Yeah, and I think that it inspires me to be able to hear women with endo and people talk about this because I know that then we are able to empower the next generation to learn this stuff a few decades earlier. Right? Because I didn’t, you know, and I’m okay with saying that because there wasn’t anybody to look around at and say that they had done that, you know, because my mother had endo as well and no one who had endo 30 and 40 years ago was willing to be treated the way they should have been treated. And so that’s trauma in itself.

Shannon Cohn (11:51)

Excuse me. Absolutely. mean, you know, as we know, like the majority of people aren’t treated that the way they should be now. So how could I mean, I do think that it’s going in the right direction again. It’s just a slow. It’s a slow journey for all of us. Yeah. Excuse me. I want to take a little water.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (12:01)

No, yeah. Yeah, I, when I think back to what my family member’s experience was, because after I had my surgery last fall, it was on Halloween. and by the way, you’ll get a kick out of this. I did dress up when I went into the OR. Yeah, I found a superwoman costume. So I thought, hey, I made it this far. I should at least, I’d at least deserve to put it on, you know.

Shannon Cohn (12:25)

That’s great. Nice. I love it.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (12:38)

before everything gets all cleaned up. after that, several family members came out of the woodwork and was like, you know, I had endo, I had a hysterectomy. Things that we know actually don’t treat endometriosis, aka hysterectomies, right? And so I think about the medical gas lighting that they must have endured and how even today when they talk about their experience, it’s, I got treated. Yes, I got treated. I had a hysterectomy, right?

Shannon Cohn (12:50)

Right.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (13:07)

And is there anything like that that surprised you along the way, like challenged your own understanding of like patient provider dynamics? Because when I listen to their story, I want to like jump right in and clear up all the misconceptions and no excision is gold standard, et cetera. But is there anything along the way that just kind of surprised you and challenged your understanding of the medical gaslighting experience?

Shannon Cohn (13:33)

You know, I think that something that infuriates me the most is that when patients go to providers and the providers don’t actually know, but they don’t give like the next step. It’s just kind of like, these are the options or nothing. And it’s just kind of like, so the patient isn’t given a way out of that doctor’s office. You know what I mean? Like, it’s like, this is it. You know, your options are A, B and C, or I can’t help you, you know.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (13:56)

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Cohn (14:02)

And that’s really difficult because I think all providers should say, know, these are the options I’m able to give you. And if none of those work, then let me help you find someone who can give you more options. And I wish that that’s the way healthcare worked and especially with endometriosis. So that, for example, primary care providers or OBGYNs, when they realize that someone with endometriosis and chronic issues is presented to them, they don’t try to fix it with their limited toolbox. And not because they’re not qualified, they’re not capable practitioners, they just don’t have those tools in the toolbox that they need to actually meet that patient’s needs. So, I hope that we can get to a spot where then they can feel comfortable saying, you know what, I can do a lot of things, but I don’t think I can help you, but let’s try to find you someone who can. That’s where I’m really focused on going next, I hope. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (15:06)

Yeah, would, that completely resonates with me. And when I take a step back and look at like pelvic health for women in general, I think what you just said is a giant red flag for us to recognize for any aspect of our care. For example, I had someone come in and it was the whole mistreatment in menopause where they said, this is the only way and it’s this or nothing, right? Which is an all or nothing binary approach, which should be a red flag to, well, any provider, not just women’s health, but particularly in women’s health when they go, it’s a hysterectomy or nothing. It’s this mode of hormone therapy or nothing. It never is. That rigidity that they’re providing as a healthcare provider is exactly what’s wrong with the system. So I think that’s really important and even more so in endometriosis because there’s that, you know, such a shortage of a lack of education there and awareness that endometriosis should be on even on the list of diagnoses to be considered.

Shannon Cohn (16:19)

Right. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (16:21)

Yeah. And that kind of leads us back to, well, two things, two things that I wanted to point out of that because women with endometriosis also are eventually going to be in perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause. And there’s also a lot of misconceptions out there about what should be done or shouldn’t be done about hormone therapies since…endometriosis can be driven by estrogen. So if you’re listening and that’s you, and you’ve been told that endometriosis is gonna get better as you go through menopause, okay, that’s not true. And or that you shouldn’t be in any kind of hormone therapy because you have endo, also not true. I encourage you to seek out those providers, throw us a comment on YouTube or wherever you’re listening to this, whether you’re watching the film version or you’re listening to this through a podcast, so that we can point you in the right direction to get that care because any provider that tells you it’s their way or the highway is more than likely wrong.

Yeah. So. I know you’ve probably heard and you’ve talked about, you your amazing work, your advocacy work, your film. You have traveled all over the place. can’t even imagine all the interviews, all the things that you’ve done. What kind of stories inspire ideas for new projects for you?

Shannon Cohn (18:06)

Yeah, I mean, honestly, there are so many stories that need to be told. this not there’s, know, there’s certainly not a dearth of like, where these stories I think we all have a story to tell and multiple stories to tell. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know. mean, a lot of times, you know, it’s just kind of like what naturally happens.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (18:10)

I can’t imagine. Yeah.

Shannon Cohn (18:28)

And with I think a lot of filmmakers, I can put on my filmmaker hat right now. It’s really about finding a story that feels true and authentic and is important to you. Because the truth of the matter is like being a filmmaker, especially independent filmmaker like I am, you know, I’m not backed by like Hollywood studios and no action movies in my future or anything like that. But you have to be passionate about the material. You have to just have this drive and this conviction within you that those stories need to be told and told in a big way. Because if you don’t have it, I think so many stories I think get kind of left by the wayside. And it’s not because they’re not worthy, it’s just we are all human and we only can do so much. So a lot of times, it’s the stories that someone is personally affected by that get told. I see that so often, especially in women’s health or health documentaries. If you dig into those, a lot of times the filmmakers behind those are personally affected or love someone or care about someone who’s personally affected. And that’s not, by the way, like, just limited to filmmaking. That’s with policy agendas and why certain Congress people care more about one issue than others, because a lot of times, time and time again, they’re personally affected by the issue. So they become champions for that issue, or healthcare providers or journalists. so many we are driven by our personal experience because that’s just that’s when we know that we know, you know, that something is important because we’ve seen it’s the injustice around it or we’ve seen the inequity at play, you know, in the real world in real time and we feel like then we can speak to it. And I think the key is then accepting that and saying wait, I am qualified to speak to this because I have this lived experience and not being hesitant to share or not feeling like, well, I can’t do this. Someone else can do this better. No, but really saying like, no, I can do this too, because this is my truth. This is what I’ve experienced. So I encourage, you know, when I do screenings and do Q &A’s and panels and stuff, I try to encourage, you know, whichever audience, you know, I’m with to say like, you know, bring what you can to the table, to this journey, to make, to create progress. It could be your professional capacity and what, you know, your training is, your experience. It could be your voice, you know, and your lived experience and just sharing your story. There’s not one way to help move this forward in the right direction. And I think that’s, you know, left to the person to kind of figure out, but to realize that you are the expert on your own story and, you know, find your voice.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (21:21)

Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that. So many people, specifically women, need to hear that every day because of the medical gaslighting that they have experienced feel like not only are they not being heard, but they actually don’t matter. And just to hear you voice that, that your story has power and your story matters, needs to be repeated again and again until it gets down in our hearts and we realize that we can do something with it just like you have, yeah. So if in all the frenzy, I mean, I see you, I follow you on Instagram and I see you’re on the stage here and in another country or doing different things, where do you see…

I’m super curious about this, the specific institutions, like sectors, like healthcare, media, education, like where do you see awareness finally really taking hold or feel like the potential is there for that?

Shannon Cohn (22:22)

I think it’s gonna take all of them. I think all the sectors have to move forward together and it’s a concerted and collaborative effort. And that’s why with the impact campaign that we’re doing, it’s really about using below the belt and Endowat as tools to create change. They tell stories and the idea is we start with those, we tell the stories, we reach hearts, and then we can reach minds with actionable initiatives and change. So, I mean, with media, I think that it’s important to be telling the story around ‘Below the Belt’ and story of endometriosis and sharing accurate data and information so that women can take the data and use it as a base of knowledge then go take control of their health. I think that’s really key. And then to also just inform the mainstream, inform the general public about…endometriosis so that they know about this condition called endometriosis that is actually so pervasive and makes such an impact on people’s lives. I always say, like, you know, endometriosis, whether you realize it or not, whether you realize it or not, you know, and love someone who has endometriosis. So you should care about it. And I’ve said that to, you know, 60 year old men in Iowa, you know, it doesn’t matter. people who definitely think they don’t have any direct correlation when I bring it down to that level, know, in that personal level, they get it, you know, they have a wife, a daughter, a sister, you know, then a mother, and everyone has a mother. So then they should care about this condition and women’s health conditions, you know, that are historically under researched and dismissed. so media, yes, policy has to move forward, you know, advocating for increased research funding and other types of policy changes so that we can and increase access to quality care, medical education, really making sure that when patients are empowered and do find their voice and have information and they go see their healthcare provider that they’re not stymied in a way, or they’re less likely to be stymied at that first frontline provider so that that frontline provider is better equipped to recognize symptoms of endometriosis and refer to appropriate care. And that’s a lot of what we’re focusing on, like with the school nurse initiative, which we launched several years ago, and we’ve reached, excuse me, several thousand school nurses in the United States in partnership with Northeastern University School Health Academy, who gives CNE credit for every nurse who reviews the toolkit. They can watch ‘Below the Belt’ and access a lot of free materials for their school nurse infirmary, which has been really great and gratifying. And we’re seeing incredible response from that and recognizing the need. And then beyond that, we are launching a new campaign for frontline providers in partnership with Mayo Clinic, which is to call ThinkEndo. And the goal with Thinkindo is to make sure that frontline providers

know, are able to recognize symptoms of endometriosis, they can think endo and then refer to a specialist. That’s the goal of think endo and it’s for emergency room providers, it’s for pediatricians, it’s for OBGYNs, nurse practitioners, and PCPs. everyone who sees girls and women with endometriosis so that we can stop this needless diagnostic delay. And I do think I’m

incredibly excited about this program because I think with all of the stakeholders that we have involved as partners in this program that it’s going to be revolutionary in the course of the disease. If we can make sure that these many, many thousands of frontline healthcare providers will think endo, will recognize symptoms and somebody can hear the word endometriosis in their first visit with their first provider.

It would be revolutionary and that’s the goal with it.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (26:40)

It would be because if I think about, I don’t know what your time of first symptom to diagnosis was, 13 years. And it’s positive, purported that it’s like seven to 10 years, which I think would be quick considering the patients that I see every day that have gone decades. And then I think about my crazy story of it being more than that. Shortening that time of first symptom to diagnosis would be absolutely life changing and life altering for so many women, even though anyone can get endo, know, mostly women are going to have endo. So that would be incredible. mean,

Shannon Cohn (27:21)

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (27:36)

When do you have time to rest? sounds like an amazingly large project to take on.

Shannon Cohn (27:42)

It is, you know, we have, mean, hey, no one’s an island. None of this has been by one person. Yes, I speak about it because I have the lived experience and I have endometriosis. am the director of the film. I have two daughters who have it, but there’s a whole team. We have an impact team that work really hard. And we have great strategic partners, organizations, advocates that have been working in this space for decades who are all part of moving this forward you know, direct and indirect ways. So first of all, it’s definitely not just me. I mean, it’s it’s a team of people who make this happen. And secondly, like, you know, I wish I could just snap my fingers and it would all be perfect. And don’t we all wish that and we could, you know, pull it all together. But I have learned, you know, especially over the past two years with travel and everything like learn to listen to my body a bit more and to rest and find that balance. I’ve started a yoga practice, is for my, I have like a monkey brain. I’m sure everybody could relate to that where it takes me about the first half of class to actually get my brain to stop jumping around everywhere. And then the second half hour that I’m actually present and it helps, it’s incredible, at least with the mindful bit. And learning to have control and discipline on what I put in my body and stress reduction and just trying to be present. It has made a huge difference. so really leaning on multidisciplinary care and staying hydrated and trying to sleep well, which as someone who is now in perimenopause, it’s not too easy. I will say what happened with sleep all of a sudden?

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (29:33)

I don’t know.

Shannon Cohn (29:36)

I’m just like, what is going on? But, know, there’s always going to be something and I’m just trying to take it a step at a time and recognizing that even when I’m in a flare and even when it’s the worst, like, this is not how it’s going to be forever. It’s going to be okay. Try not to get, try not to give it the space, you know, and go into that kind of deep hole with it. Try to recognize it, acknowledge it, keep going, you know, doing other things and taking care of myself. But

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (29:39)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Shannon Cohn (30:06)

And that’s really helped mentally, I will say, just recognizing like, okay, this is not gonna, I’m not gonna feel this way forever. There are things I can do, there are tools, self-coping tools, or there are different providers I can see to find care. And I think that’s kind of where, when I turned a corner, because I think when we’re all in pain or having symptoms, it feels very isolating. And it feels like, you’re never going to get out of this, you know, and go live out in the world and be productive. And so when I’ve kind of learned to kind of sit with that space and not panic and feel like, no, this is fine. You know, this is where I am. This is what I need to do to address it. And it’s not going to be this way forever. I’ve really noticed I felt more in control. That’s the difference. You know, it doesn’t feel out of control or doesn’t feel my body doesn’t feel out of my control.

And that’s been kind of revelatory for me. And I hate to say that in my 40s, that’s when I finally, that’s finally happened for me. But I think that’s probably true for many of us. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (31:14)

yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, as I am like stepping firmly into the 50s and post menopausal on the other side with endo, like all the fun things, just throw them all together, I realized that the things that we think come easy and that we take for granted, laying our head on a pillow at night and going to sleep, you know?

Shannon Cohn (31:27)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (31:40)

learning what the science is behind that and how to improve those things, which can boil down to lifestyle medicine, like those pillars. You just basically listed all of them of what we put in our bodies, how we hydrate, who we hang around, the therapies we use on ourself. Excuse me, you mentioned things like… acceptance and commitment therapy like ACT, you didn’t say that exactly, but you described, know, ACT, described cognitive behavioral therapy and CBT, you described so many things that can be, that are pinpoint, accurate, evidence-based and super helpful for this difficult transition. Because you could be in your 20s with endo and you’re worried about fertility or in your 30s, or you can be in your 40s and your 50s with endo and worrying about how is perimenopause going to go down? Am I going to be ever able to sleep again? Or new things that happen with the gut microbiome or food, nutritional triggers that weren’t there last year, but happened to be there today. The good news is there are treatments for that. There are…definitive both short and long game care interventions that are well supported by the literature. So I hope that in listening to this, that you come away feeling everyone feels hopeful, that it doesn’t have to feel so isolating and alone, that there are many, many and low cost ways too, which is I think another aspect of research. If we’re improving surgical access to care of expert excision, which is a huge deal. Then improving awareness that there’s access to high quality care that is low cost too is also important. Yeah. So, okay. So we talked about your new project, Think Endo, which I am like over the moon to hear about.

And so that was in partnership with Mayo and you said Northeastern University to offer continuing education for medical providers, excuse me, for nurses, which is really incredible. Tell me a little bit more about that. Is that actually going to be a virtual experience for them? Like what will that look like?

Shannon Cohn (33:53)

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, so there’s going to be basically patients, anyone can go on to thinkendo.org, the website for the initiative and request that a free toolkit be sent to a healthcare provider. It can be any healthcare provider. And then we send directly to that healthcare provider, the toolkit, all of the resources, access to below the belt, fact sheets, quick reference sheets, symptom checklist, things like that, tools that they can utilize and also share with patients, share with parents, for example, and also access to really key journal articles and academic resources like that. that’s gonna live on a website as a digital toolkit, and then they can access, then we also share the link to the Mayo course, for example, which includes additional specific videos and resources from different professionals. I’m part of that kind of that’s part of within the CME as well and below the belt is part of that CME as well. So it’s kind of like a toolkit plus continuing education credit with Mayo and of which everything is you know involved inside of it and ‘Below the Belt’ is you know part of that so that if a healthcare provider comes to the we wanted to make sure that a healthcare provider came to the course not through ThinkEndo, but through Mayo, for example, then they still had access to the toolkit and ‘Below the Belt’. So it’s also housed within Mayo. And same thing with Northeastern. So that you share, for example, your school nurses information, and we share this to the toolkit with them, follow up with them, ask if they have any questions, have a post toolkit survey. So really trying to track what’s working. What we can do better, what we can add to the toolkit, and basically trying to track attitudes, information, education. Because I haven’t seen anything like this in any condition. And if we can put together a model that works, then this can be expanded for several different health care conditions. And wouldn’t that be incredible? So really trying to put together practical tools there so that we can put a model together to change healthcare when it’s not working for patient populations.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (36:37)

Woo, that gives me chills. That is good stuff. Yeah, you’re right. That could be applied across the board in so many different situations beyond Endo. But Endo is a huge one to start with since it is at least a one in 10 situation incidence for women. Shannon, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here and taking the time out of your Uber busy schedule to talk to us.

Shannon Cohn (36:38)

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (37:04)

Give everybody again the lowdown on where they can find you and your resources. I know there’s Think Endo, but you also have others, so.

Shannon Cohn (37:09)

Yeah, yeah. Yes, thank you. I know there’s so many different names. So basically, Think Endo is the new education campaign for frontline providers. If they want to go to the organization website, it’s actually ‘Project Endo’ we’ve just rebranded really just because we’ve had so many different there’s ‘Below the Belt’ there’s and do what there’s so many different you know, there’s those are the two films ‘Project Endo’ is basically the hub for going to learn about the organizational work that we’re doing. And it includes links to the film. So, ‘Endo What’ and ‘Below the Belt’. And now it will include a link to ‘Think Endo’. So I would say the best place to start is projectendo.org, which is, well, yeah, get you started on all the information you need to learn about endometriosis, but also the work that we’re doing.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (37:55)

All right, everybody go right over to projectendo.org. And I had to save the best for last, which is that chair that you’re sitting in. If you’re listening and not watching, is a beautiful color for Endo awareness. Gold. Shannon is sitting in this amazing gold wing back chair. And I said, this is perfect. This is perfect. I love that chair.

Shannon Cohn (38:17)

Hahaha

Thank you. Yes, I do too. It’s very comfortable. Thank you very much. It’s an honor to be here.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (38:26)

Thank you.