Hello and welcome back everyone. I am so excited, but also sad. So I guess you would say this qualifies as bittersweet to be shoring up the final episode of season four, which has been all about Endo all about endometriosis. But before you think, this is the end of the Endo conversation, it is absolutely not the end of the endometriosis conversation. In fact, in many ways, this is just the beginning. This is one of our ⁓ major points of focus of things that are important to the team in terms of discussing how we can improve access to sensitivity to awareness to ⁓ pelvic health.

Everyone has a pelvis, so at some point you’re going to need pelvic health, all right? You can’t just let it coast ⁓ on youth because as that begins to ⁓ fade for everyone, you’re going to have to be intentional about taking care of it. And there are so many complex layered things that happen. So yes, it’s bittersweet to be finishing up this season but also this is a new beginning to discuss all of the things, all the variables, all the complicated parts and pieces about people who struggle with endometriosis, about people who struggle with pelvic pain, and they’ve been dismissed, whether it is medical gaslighting or medical misogyny or whatever label that you identify with.

That’s what’s important is putting an end to that and basically liberating you, your health, your voice, totally your pelvic floor. So yeah, it’s bittersweet, but this is also the beginning. So welcome back. Welcome back to the pelvic floor for this last episode. Now in the previous or part one where it was just me flying solo, ⁓ I shared my framework for treating endo with an integrative whole person approach. And today it’s all about you. I’m gonna be answering your questions live about surgery, pelvic floor therapy, daily life with endometriosis and everything in between. Because your questions don’t just matter.

They are literally shaping the future of care and advocacy. So before we get started, I want to kind of anchor you in the flow first. This is what’s coming. ⁓ We have questions from multiple people, from people with endo, from doctors who treat endo, or they don’t specialize in endo, but they have curiosity and questions about how to better do it. ⁓

The categories kind of fall into self-advocacy. That’s Gaslighting, that’s another. Queer, neurodivergent, trans care. Hey, what does that look like? It’s a good question. How about care? Also, here’s another category. For women who’ve experienced sexual assault and need pelvic floor therapy. That’s a big deal. One in three women at least are victims of sexual assault. This impacts so many more women than you know. So keep listening for that question. And then the final category ⁓ is, and that’s brought up by you, is resources, ways that you can get help.

So let’s dive in.

All right, our first question comes from Jamie. We’re gonna play that question ⁓ for you now.

my goodness. my goodness, Jamie. ⁓ who goes by ⁓ or in parentheses I’d put, so she is believed. So I wanna include that part too. ⁓ So relevant to suffering with endometriosis because let’s just face it, many times you are not believed. So first I wanna start out by saying I wish I could just like reach through and give you a giant hug if that is ⁓ something that is comforting those 22nd, know, oxytocin releasing hugs that give you safety, that sense of safety that you have someone to lean into. So I wish I could do that. So just know that I’m doing that kind of energetically and meditatively. You know, she had mentioned having 12 doctors involved in her Endo case and none of them talking to each other. And Jamie, you’re right.

Endo is a whole body disease. Why aren’t these people talking to each other?

I also want to reflect back on a couple of other things you said about wishing you never had your first surgery. And I wish I could know the circumstances of that. Was it ablation? Was it really excision? Was it true excision? I have too many patients come to me whose providers, whose surgeons say that’s inoperable, that’s not true. ⁓ So I just, hope that, and I’m assuming, I don’t ever want to assume, but based on your story that perhaps that first surgery didn’t go the way it should have. Also to have your GYN say you’re not their patient anymore because your reproductive organs are gone is horrible and something that I wanna address directly. ⁓ So let me get started. First of all, I wanna recognize your frustration and isolation. ⁓ It is so common for that to happen.

And I hate to have to say that, I really do, it shouldn’t be. I hear your frustration, I hear your grief and everything you’ve just shared. You’ve basically had to shoulder the burden of coordinating care for a disease that is truly whole body and that should not fall on you. You are supposed to be able to go into a system, a healthcare system that is a sanctuary, that is a safe space, that you are trusted to tell your own story, that you are believed, that that story is believed when you do tell it. And I’m just here to say that’s not what usually happens if you don’t find the right providers. But the good thing is there is a second half to that phrase. If you do have the right providers, you can find that. And that’s hard, that’s hard. That also shouldn’t fall on you to be able to vet a surgeon to know if…that’s a surgeon for you if that’s the therapist for you. So I just want to acknowledge that first. The regret about your first surgery and the way your doctor dismissed you saying you weren’t their patient anymore after your reproductive organs were gone. Those are real wounds. It makes total sense that you should feel abandoned and angry. And if you have feelings of anxiety or depression, that is not a weakness.

That’s a result of being in a system that doesn’t know how to handle and hasn’t cared enough to handle your complex healthcare needs that you deserve care for. And therefore they’re more than willing to just saddle you with a mental health diagnosis, but you have a real health condition, right? So the truth is really this isn’t just your story. It’s a systemic problem. Endometriosis is…

easily one of the most siloed conditions in medicine today. And you’re absolutely right, it affects the entire body, but most physicians are trained very narrowly. Most therapists are trained quite narrowly within their own specialty. Gynecologists are gonna look at reproductive organs, GI, you know, they’re gonna look at the bowel and system. Urologists, know, in the bladder and pain specialists often end up looking at, you know, nerves and pharmacology to treat it. Very rarely do they like step back and say, how is all this connected, right? And in our system, there isn’t one role automatically designed to coordinate it all for endo. So patients like you end up having to be the case manager. Not fair and also not appropriate.

So what you’re pointing to is exactly why advocates and clinicians are pushing for team-based whole person endocare. Your story illustrates what happens when continuity of care breaks down or doesn’t exist at all and procedures like ablation get prioritized over true excision and true rehabilitation services. But there’s hope, there’s hope. There are providers, pelvic health PTs,

integrative and functional medicine practitioners and MIGS trained excision ⁓ specialists or gynecologists and surgeons who are willing to collaborate and collaborate across silos. I wanna take this a step further though and encourage you to look for pelvic health PTs who are trained as primary care providers. This is not a new concept but it is one that is being legislatively recognized across the United States now. Some states are passing legislation and position statements with their professional organizations that recognize physical therapists as primary care providers across the lifespan. For musculoskeletal and neuromuscular conditions, this means they can be that case manager, right? They do exist. I do it, I’ve been doing it, others do it.

They can help spearhead your endo team. They can help you intentionally choose providers who respect your lived experience and who will communicate with one another when asked to. They will direct you towards trusted providers who don’t live in that silo. And even though we all do have a silo of specialty, we are supposed to communicate. That is our job. And so those providers who don’t communicate and they don’t provide continuity of care, they’re frankly not doing their job. So a primary care ⁓ pelvic PT can also lessen your isolation and your decision fatigue. They are going to point you towards literature, articles, scientifically, evidence-based structure and literature that will help you choose the right treatment and the right provider at the right time.

That is what I consider my job to be, ⁓ what I do day to day in the clinic, and it is what others should be doing for you as well. I just want you to know you don’t have to manage this alone, but the fact that you have been is a freaking testament to your resilience. And what your doctor said, or your former doctor, hopefully you fired them, ⁓ that quote, you’re not my patient anymore, is a symptom of a broken system. It is not a reflection of your worth. You deserve care that is integrated, compassionate, and coordinated. And your voice and naming these gaps is part of the change that needs to happen. So I want you to feel good about moving forward because you are being part of that change. So Jamie, I hope this helps. ⁓ I have…So much empathy and compassion for you right now. I really hope this does help you.

Our next question is from Dr. Udim Isang and I will let her introduce herself and read her question here.

All right, Dr. Isang ⁓ I would love to know your whole story. You know, we got your, how you identify, know, the labels that we assign ourselves on the planet to be able to like commune and create community and connection with other people. And I just wish I could know your whole story because I can already hear the strength and determination and resilience in your voice. So first of all, I’m in awe. Second, love your question. Love it, love it, love it. I just wanna start by affirming the importance of this question. And if I could shout it from the rooftops along, but you know, beside you, ⁓ which kind of in a way this podcast is, then you know, that’s what we’re doing here. It’s a really important question. I’m glad you asked it. It highlights something I think about constantly and that’s how identity and lived experience intersect with healthcare, especially in endometriosis, which is already a condition that carries so much trauma, right? Endo is already a condition that carries so much trauma. And then you add struggling with, you know, being acknowledged and respected for how you identify yourself after that.

So to start, to answer your question, the first part was about how I use a biopsychosocial framework. ⁓ I feel so strongly about a BPS framework, a biopsychosocial framework, which is basically looking at a whole person, not just looking at their diagnosis biologically, but looking at the psychological and social aspects, as well as spiritual aspects of the person as well. I felt so strongly about it that I really lobbied hard to include that word on the title, in the title of my first book, Medical Therapeutic Yoga, all about biopsychosocial care in an integrative context, which, gosh, when I started writing it, was over a decade ago, was not well accepted. Biopsychosocial care was well researched and supported in the literature, absolutely.

But in an integrative and lifestyle care model, medicine model, not so much. So I’ve used a biopsychosocial framework my entire practice. That means I respect and use and draw on pain science, functional medicine, psychosocial support and psychologically informed therapy, and a big basis in integrative and lifestyle medicine. All those things together, I call film, functional, integrative, and lifestyle medicine in that whole person or what we medically call biopsychosocial framework.

My main point that I wanna make about that is of course I can’t go into the intricacies of how that’s treated. In fact, I go through a lot of that in the previous part one podcast. So make sure you pop back over and listen to that. Because I do spend a good deal of time going through those details. But I assume that everyone with endo has trauma, whether medical, social, relational or otherwise. So my baseline approach is trauma-informed care. That specifically, to get a little bit more nerdy about it, is informed through polyvagal theory. I have had the good fortune of working with Dr. Stephen Porges, the creator, discoverer, rather, of polyvagal theory. It is informed by something called Caring Economics, ⁓ founded and created by Dr. Rhianne Eisler. Those are the pillars of how I approach trauma-informed care. And to include the obvious, which is psychologically informed, principles in physical therapy. that means I’m talking about safety, choice, obvious informed consent, empowerment, collaboration and trust. And then we have to talk about, okay, where does identity intersect with all this? Here, we wanna acknowledge fully that

We don’t ignore the unique aspects of being queer, trans, and neurodivergent. ⁓ As a mother, I have intimate, intimate experience with parenting neurodivergence ⁓ in my own immediate family. And that has been…it’s been earth shattering and shifting. It’s been healing. It’s been empowering. It has been a blessing. Like it really has. ⁓ But I also don’t pathologize that, right? ⁓ I’m not creating a different category of care and pathologizing it because someone walks in with neuro, you know, like they’re neurodivergent or trans or queer. I don’t change my fundamental framework depending on someone’s identity, but I absolutely do adapt how I deliver that care to recognize their lived experience. So here’s a few specifics. ⁓ So queer patients, they are gonna face heteronormative assumptions in pelvic health. They may actually have self-inflicted those things, not to mention, you know, the system and sociology as well. So I make sure that I lean into open affirming language. I check that my intake forms, history taking and my plans of care really reflect their reality and their goals and intentions. Trans patients, for example, may have faced systemic discrimination or medical violence and that’s worth a pause.

We all have to pay attention to affirming pronouns. That’s like a basic thing, right? Consent with touch, how and where, and allowing the patient to choose terminology for their own anatomy. I mean, that’s kind of 40,000 foot view, right? And then with neurodivergence. They might, and I’m just, I had to pause because I’m reflecting back on my own experience here too. I’m not just professional, but personal is healthcare fatigue, they don’t feel heard. They may be misinterpreted as being aloof or. ⁓know, apathetic or unable to communicate clearly or whatever that may be. I need to adapt my environment as a clinician and these are your green flags, right? These are the things you wanna look for as a patient seeking care if you are neurodivergent or trans or queer or just a patient with endo, right? Who’s also been dismissed.

So I wanna adapt my environment. So look for these green flags, reduce sensory overload, offer different ways of learning, visual, written instructions. I offer video, offer handouts, and I ask my patients, like, how do you learn best? How much time do you have to give to the certain task? Can we do that in two minutes? Can we do it in five? ⁓ Oftentimes there are other sensory issues, light, overhead light, surrounding noise⁓ you know, touch and feel of like the linens or whatever might be on the table at that time. I also want to create predictable structures for sessions. ⁓ This is something that I deeply embody and ⁓ feel just because of my own personal experience. I think that gives me a little bit different viewpoint than if I was just approaching this professionally. But you how much that look in like a clinical application setting, right?

You know, I can’t go into a ton of illustrations, but here’s, you know, like a brief practical one. So for one patient, might mean slow down. Don’t say as many words per minute. Maybe demonstrate. Don’t just talk about it. Preview steps before I do that. That might mean previewing steps for an evaluation or previewing steps for showing them a movement therapy or a motor pattern or if I’m going to use a modality. With another, it might mean asking what terms feel safe for them when discussing pelvic anatomy. And for another, it might mean making space for them to share how prior healthcare discrimination has impacted their trust in me. And I validate that when someone comes in and sits down with these ⁓ issues, you know, as positive as they are and identifying who they are and…with certain communities, I want to validate that they’re allowed to be skeptical coming to see me. They’re allowed to ask those questions that might even seem like offending to another provider. Like, have a lack of trust in the system and here’s why, and it’s impacting my trust in you. That’s valid, right?

So the principles of how I treat are really the same, but the expression of those principles really shift with each person. Each person is unique and I don’t treat everyone like some randomized controlled trial. I treat people like an N of one, that one person in the study matters. I am not going to treat people like a group, okay? And I guess just to kind of close this up, my answer is kind of know really I don’t treat queer, neurodivergent or trans patients with endo by inventing a whole new framework. However, I treat everyone with trauma-informed biopsychosocial care. However, there’s still another caveat to that. Yes, I do adjust and change how I show up. ⁓ Your identities matter. Honoring them is part of creating safety, trust and effective care. And I will continue to shift how I show up for you as a patient, if you were my patient. I would continue to adjust, I would continue to grow, I would continue to learn because that’s the human condition and we can all get better at that. So I hope that helps. The weight of your concern is real using

solid evidence-based clinical reasoning that’s biopsychosocial and trauma-informed is critical. ⁓ We don’t want other people, right? We want to be inclusive and send that message of person-centeredness, of equity, of ⁓ connectedness and inclusion.

Our next question is from Sarah G. Let’s hear hers.

Whoo, Sarah. First of all, I want to thank you for your courage in asking this question.

It takes a lot of courage. And you also mentioned that you tried to press charges. I mean, that takes an exponential amount of courage because that’s why the one in three statistic, for every three women, at least one has been sexually assaulted usually by someone they know. That’s underestimated. It is under reported according to the World Health Organization. So it is higher. So you’re not alone. First, you’re not alone. But for everyone that is reported, a tiny, tiny fraction of those actually go on to be successful. So first of all, thanks for having the courage, thank you, to ask this. I wanna first of all just acknowledge the incredible impact of sexual trauma on the body, on the mind, on the heart, on the pelvic floor and in your existing medical trust as you are feeling it right now your therapeutic relationship is first and foremost with any provider. And we’re talking about pelvic floor PT specifically. And I’m talking about pelvic floor PT specifically because of both the orthopedic and ⁓ pelvic connection that ⁓ I have in my background as a therapist specialized in two different kind of categories, if you will. So that means I can talk about pelvic floor PT. That might look different for pelvic floor OT, but the point is, therapeutic relationship is paramount. If you don’t have that, you really don’t have the basis to move forward to treat. So you gotta feel safe first. The environment needs to be conducive to that. It needs to meet you where you are. ⁓ Whether it is the amount of privacy, quiet, lighting, surroundings, comfort. ⁓ you know, the draping that is used, what is exposed, what isn’t exposed, et cetera. But before we get to that, I wanna say first, like for a core principle to answer your question, just absolute direct and upfront, internal work is not required. It may be never required. And that’s a key piece. And I’m gonna explain this in just a minute. 

And for…pelvic floor PT’s that they’re listening or GYNs, they might go, ⁓ it’s always required. No, I disagree and I’m gonna tell you why and this might sound controversial. But internal pelvic floor work is only one tool and not the only option. And I’m gonna get to why in a minute. You as the patient are always in control. Nothing is ever done without informed consent and I only move at someone’s pace. So we only move at the patient’s pace. And they should absolutely be trauma-informed trained. I’m gonna say something else controversial. I believe that all pelvic floor therapists, whether they’re PTOT, I don’t care what they are, ⁓ they should all have trauma-informed training. Please ask. When you call to make an appointment or you email or you go online, I would not necessarily make that appointment for an evaluation if you don’t have proof that they have trauma-informed training somehow. That’s critical. Okay, so moving at your own pace, being safe, absolutely getting informed consent, looking for signs, and when you’re trauma-informed trained, you’re going to be looking for those signs. ⁓ And there are many, right? Mostly it is about if I have prepped the situation and the ⁓ moving into that safely, then they are going to feel empowered, they are in charge. I am their guide. That’s it, that’s all I’m doing. I am not some sage on the stage here. I’m just a guide on the side. But before I ever get to internal, and many times I don’t have to, ⁓ here are the alternative approaches.

So you wanna look for pelvic floor PT’s that don’t just do internal. And I have seen too many pelvic floor therapists who are frankly a little rabid about doing internal. It’s unnecessary. You don’t have to rely on intra-vaginal or intra-rectal assessment as your only assessment tools. So you need to ask that question too. That’s another red flag. If your pelvic floor PT has no other tools to treat you other than internal, that’s incomplete and it’s also not trauma-informed. So here are my alternative approaches. Not every therapist is going to have these, but I do think it’s a bonus. Why did I do these? Specifically because I treat a population and they’ve 100 % experienced trauma, most of them sexual trauma. I needed to be incredibly specialized and empathic towards that.

So what do I use? I use real-time ultrasound imaging. I visualize the pelvic floor externally through the abdominal wall. Now there are other ways that I can do it as well, but that’s the most non-invasive is just through the abdominal wall. I can see a lot. We can get weeks and weeks and sometimes months and months of training out of that. I can also visualize core function up and down the, I use a voice to pelvic floor approach and I’ll explain a little bit more about that in a second but it’s without internal contact. And that’s ⁓ a gorgeous, wonderful alternative approach. I also getting back to the voice to pelvic floor, I call it V to PF for short, or the three diaphragm approach. I have trained a lot of therapists on this. Now, they may not have, you know, ⁓ high level skills in it, but I have trained hundreds of therapists in my voice to pelvic floor methodology. I use sound, breathing, movement to access pelvic floor function and regulation. It’s really all about pressure management. That means I may use your voice, your respiratory diaphragm. It’s not just about the pelvic floor.

So that’s a very specialized technique wherein I don’t have to do internal work either. And that sometimes is all I need as well. Combination of V to PF, voice to pelvic floor method treatment, and real-time ultrasound imaging. And then there are plenty of external methods. I’m going to reveal, I don’t know if it’s a personal bias here. It’s not necessarily controversial. It’s just what you say when you have had nearly 30 years of experience in the field.

And that is, I believe anyone who’s a pelvic floor therapist should also be trained in orthopedics, specifically if they’re going to treat endometriosis. If you’re going to specialize, know your limits. If you don’t have at least five to 10 years of orthopedic experience before going in as a pelvic PT, there are going to be limitations in what you can do, and that’s okay. You don’t have to treat everything.

But as a therapist with 30 years of experience in both orthopedics and pelvic floor PT, very much specializing in the women’s health and pelvic health across the spectrum, I can say that with confidence. I wouldn’t be able to dig as deeply as I do to treat if I didn’t have these other external methods. So those methods include orthopedics, postural, breath work, manual therapy, lots of movement reeducation and motor patterning.

I’m also trained in other integrative ⁓ medicine methods, ⁓ as well as board certified in lifestyle medicine. So those are all external methods of treatment. And it also takes a systems based approach. And I want to emphasize that because endo is a systems based disease. So if you’ve been through something like that, that sexual, horrible sexual trauma that no one should ever have to experience, then these are going to be those key critical alternative approaches to take in order to maybe avoid internal work altogether. Now, that brings up the point of, wouldn’t you want internal, you you wanna go on to have intercourse again, have ⁓ sexual intimacy and intimacy in general, again, yes, a pelvic floor PT can help you work into that as well. But these other approaches are kind of different entry points, okay? That allow you to get to the point where you are comfortable with all of the things that you wanna be comfortable with again. So when is internal work considered? Well, only after safety and trust are established. It’s guided by informed consent, shared decision-making. I have a cool little model, the pelvic floor for…females and I would give that to you as a patient and say, I will tell you exactly where I am every step of the way. A particular muscle, a particular ligament near a particular bone. I’m going to tell you exactly where I am. I want your brain to be able to match up where you feel sensation with where it actually is so that A, you can self treat better or B, when you have pain, you go, it’s that muscle and it is less fear generating. Because you know what the problem is instead of going, my gosh, I have a pain internally. It feels horrible. I don’t know what to do. I think I won’t move. Because then you, people can work into a situation where they become afraid to move, afraid to try a new activity. They’re not sure what’s gonna hurt. They become afraid of sex and intimacy. And that’s a fallout of what happens, but it doesn’t have to happen.

So we discuss what internal work involves. We explain goals, possible sensations, reinforce the ability you can stop at any time. And then I will have partners come in as well. So I can teach them what to do, teach them about language, teach them the exact same things that we went through. And sometimes again, it’s never needed. Sometimes it’s possible once trust has been built and you’re ready for that. So just to kind of recap. Internal work is never the starting point ever. I rarely do internal work on a first visit with anyone, even without trauma. And sometimes it’s not necessary at all. Healing is gonna happen when you have restored that trust, safety, and your sense of agency. And your voice as the patient always leads the way. Choice always leads the way, always.

All right, ⁓ let’s go into our resources section here for categories. ⁓ All right, first, the question is, and these aren’t live, I’m just gonna read these out. These are submitted ⁓ elsewhere. Hi, I want to watch the below the belt documentary, but I can’t figure out how. It says Amazon video, but I can’t find it. And it says PBS, but there’s only like eight minutes available. What is up? Alrighty, that’s a great question. And I get that frequently, it’s why I included it. ⁓ Below the Belt, spearheaded by ⁓ Shannon Cohn and an amazing group of advocates, ⁓ has been available for several years now, but you have to host a screening. So if you will go to belowthebelt.film, right there on the homepage, right up at the top, it is just click on host a screening and that will make it possible to view the film and bring the film to your area. And in the fundraising that happens to host a screening,⁓ They’re going to bring other resources to your local high schools to educate nurses on how to screen for endometriosis ⁓ in females and people with endometriosis.

So I think that’s a service to the community. ⁓ And of course it’s a way not to only be able to watch the film, but educate an entire region at the same time. So I strongly suggest that. Next question. Does Dr. Garner have a private practice? Yeah, you know, I don’t ever really talk about it that much, but yes, I have a website and I have a private practice. You can go to GarnerPelvicHealth.com. And from there, there are many different resources and that really is kind of the next question that came up that was submitted is, you know, how can I see you, cetera? So first of all, you can go and I am one person and I do have to limit the number of free consults that I do for obvious reasons. Like I’ve got to keep the lights on and stuff and see my existing patients and do things like this. So if you go to GarnerPelvicHealth.com, you can click on scheduling a free consult and I will be happy to talk to you about endometriosis care. 

All right, the next question is, hi there, I was listening this morning and would love to know the link for the menopause course mentioned in one of the podcast episodes. And I had to go back and see, okay, which one was that? And I believe I have figured that out. ⁓ if you go to Garner Pelvic Health.com and we’re going to put the links to everything that I just mentioned in the show notes. So don’t worry. You won’t have to like furiously scribble this down or, or do a Google search, ⁓ or chat GPT it. So yeah, the course is, at the website under learn and then you’ll just choose courses. And again we’re going to include the direct link in the show note as well. There is a free download for that course and an interview that I did because I always talk about the course pretty detailed before I actually launch it. It is a course for everyone. It is a short course. It’s relatively inexpensive and it gives you more information than you probably want on navigating perimenopause and menopause. And yes, it does apply when you’re going through endometriosis. You don’t even have to be in perimenopause to benefit from this webinar because it’s going to get you ready for perimenopause, which can start at age 35. So you should, you know, get prepared in whatever ways you feel best, but it does help prepare you for that. Also, if you’re on birth control pills or any other kind of ⁓ estrogen, suppressor in terms of pharmacology or medications, this webinar will also apply to you because you’re going to want to manage those estrogen levels, ⁓ particularly if they’re being suppressed due to intimatriosis. So I hope that helps. And again, we’ll include all those ⁓ links in the show notes. And that’s it.

That’s the Q and A. I couldn’t take all the questions, obviously, and there will be so many more. But this is a bittersweet sentence to share, but this is the final episode in season four of our season all about endometriosis and empowering the people with it. I really hope you have found it helpful. ⁓ I am going to be taking a short break from podcasting and we will launch in a few months with season five. And I can’t give you a spoiler alert yet, but I can promise you, I can promise you, this is gonna be the most exciting season ever. I thought Endo was it. I was like, nothing can be better than this. But now we’re going to carry the endometriosis conversation forward into a deeper dive into the pelvic health and pelvic girdle and orthopedic world.

So if all I can say is if you want to get kind of maximum enjoyment out of the your body, the pelvic floor, everything you’re gonna wanna listen to and stay tuned for season five when it launches in a few short weeks. Thank you so much for listening. And if you have time, please take the time to go up and leave us a five star rating and a review if you have an extra minute. That really helps and influences the people that we can reach. And if you can help support the podcast, I entirely self-fund this podcast. I am receiving no funding at this moment. So if you can even spare $2 a month, $10 a month, whatever it may be, there is a link for that on the site as well. And we’ll put that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your continued support and listening to The Vocal Pelvic Floor.