Hi everyone and welcome back. I am here today with Emma Jack, a physiotherapist from London, Ontario, Canada. She owns her own practice, Press Play Physiotherapy, and she is in sports and orthopedic physio. So welcome Emma.

Emma Jack (01:08)

Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. This has been on my calendar for a while and I’ve been so looking forward to it.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (01:15)

Yeah, okay, y’all, for you listening, I’ve been kind of chasing down Emma for quite a while now to talk about this very specific and what we both feel like, I know, is like, should be like top tier importance in the field of women’s health and pelvic health specifically. So I am so glad that you’re finally here. Thank you, thank you so much.

Emma Jack (01:37)

Yeah.

Yeah!

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (01:44)

We have a lot to talk about and this episode is pretty special for me today for a lot of reasons. is that I don’t think we hear enough personal stories. We hear a lot about medical gaslighting and for those of you who aren’t familiar with medical gaslighting, maybe you’re dropping into the first episode here, it is when you go to the very place where you expect to be held safe to find a sanctuary, to find help, to be heard and listened to. And instead, you get marginalization, you get demoralizing talk pushed back at you, you get dismissed with your symptoms, you get told it’s age or gender or any of a number of things simply that it’s your anatomy and your biology and not an actual problem. And so that’s what we’re really talking about with medical gas lighting. But when you dig a little deeper, I think the medical gas lighting around endometriosis is even more profound. And so I’m really excited about that because we get to talk about Emma, your personal story.

Emma Jack (02:59)

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (03:07)

your professional journey inside that personal story because that’s a very unique position to be in. It’s not the way we all want to get better at clinical expertise, right, to have to personally go through something, but at the same time, we end up emerging kind of in a privileged place, having gone through something so difficult and so like…just brings you to your knees in so many ways, like figuratively, literally, know, physically, to then emerge on the other side and be able to say, this is what happened, this is what I learned. And then to be able to help other people avoid that incredible delay in getting the help that they need, specifically women with endometriosis. So if you will, share a little bit about, you know, your journey with Endo, when were you first diagnosed? When did this really come to fruition to you as a real, the battle that it is and was?

Emma Jack (04:14)

Yeah. So wildly, I didn’t get an actual definitive diagnosis until January of this past year. So January of 2024 was a very, it was a very big day in my life because if I look back, my first symptoms started at age 12 and I am now 37. So 25 years of being in and out of various specialists and doctor’s office, being brushed off, being gaslit, trying to mask certain symptoms. And so the diagnosis still in my mind is relatively new. The journey with the symptoms is a very old one. Pretty much as soon as I hit puberty, I started developing a lot of GI symptoms.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (04:54)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (05:08)

I was getting sort of this alternating constipation, diarrhea. Everybody was thinking I had these food intolerances and I went through the gamut of different tests. I can’t tell you how many colonoscopies and endoscopies I underwent. ultimately, you know, back then I was…told to go gluten free and dairy free and those symptoms should resolve. And that maybe I was just very anxious.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (05:42)

What happened when you got that kind of information? Because I’m also assuming that as what happens with so many other women that you were probably told perhaps, or maybe they didn’t even go this far into the misinformation or misdiagnosis, in that a lot of women are told, GI symptoms have nothing to do with GYN, you know, with gynecological symptoms.

Emma Jack (06:05)

my gosh, I worked in healthcare for 15 years now and I didn’t even realize that GI symptoms were related to gynecological issues until the past like two years. And so I kind of fumbled through my teenage years, you know, with these food restrictions and feeling like it was something maybe I had caused myself.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (06:13)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Emma Jack (06:33)

And I think anytime we’re given some food restrictions, especially at that age, like it was a very tender age to be start to be a little bit fearful of food and thinking that food was the enemy. And so, you know, all of those symptoms did continue. It was never resolved by going gluten and dairy free. I never had resolution of symptoms. Maybe it was a little bit better. And then sort of in my like mid twenties, especially, I just, I began to feel like, okay, my periods are painful, but I don’t think they’re meant to be this painful. I was having very severe cramping, like would feel like some days I couldn’t even stand up straight. And, you know, went to the doctor, as you do and was told, know, you probably need birth control. There was no investigation into why the cramping was so severe.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (07:13)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (07:32)

I was put on birth control and always had some sort of adverse reaction. My you name the birth control, I’ve probably tried it or been on it because it was just this sort of, you know, 10 year journey of trying different ways to mask the symptoms I was having. And so again, I thought, you know, just something hormonally is off this like, I

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (07:50)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (07:59)

I just collected it as another thing that was just wrong with me and couldn’t really be explained. I started collecting a few more symptoms. My right hip started to be quite painful. It lost range of motion and being an orthopedic PT, I was like, well, I know how to rehab this. And I did everything that I would have thought would help and it never really did.

I started to get really intense migraines around ovulation and during my cycle again was sort of told, well, if you’re not willing to try birth control, they’re probably not going to change. And it wasn’t until 2016 that I sort of found my voice in the healthcare system and said, I really feel this needs to be looked at more. There’s something more here.

I look at everyone else, other women in my life and they seem to be okay. And so there’s something more to this story. And so I had a pelvic ultrasound done and at that time they found two large cysts on both of my ovaries. And the word endometriosis never came up, not once. And I was sort of told, you know what, yep, they’re big but…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (08:58)

Hmm.

Mm.

Emma Jack (09:21)

You know, there can be just as many issues taking them out as leaving them in. So we’ll keep an eye on it. And we’re talking large, 12, 15 centimeter cysts. And, you know, I was seeing at the time the head of our gynecological department. I live in a medical hub city. I had a lot of trust that they knew what they were talking about and just kind of thought that, well, we have a plan. We’re going to monitor it, that will be fine. And really towards 2020, it was becoming quite untenable. Like my quality of life was very low. I wasn’t able to work out the way I wanted to work out. I was really fatigued, like chronically fatigued, chronically bloated, still dealing with GI issues. And so I went back to the doctor and he said, okay, we’ll remove the cysts and while we’re in there, we’ll look for any evidence of endometriosis. I thought, great. So deep pandemic times.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (10:17)

Hmm.

Emma Jack (10:19)

I had a surgery, which I now understand just not knowing going into the surgery, the surgery was an ablation surgery. So where they cauterize and burn the tissue rather than fully removing all of the tissue. So I had that ablation done, no follow up, no aftercare whatsoever. I left the hospital that day. I walked myself out of the hospital like that to me is still like just such a fever dream.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (10:28)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Emma Jack (10:49)

And I thought, you know, I was sort of told at my three month appointment, yep, we remove the cysts, no signs and symptoms of endometriosis, you’re good to go. So I…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (11:03)

So they never biopsied, they never sent it for a biopsy, apparently. Obviously they didn’t, yeah. Because that’s how they would have diagnosed it at that point, but if they were just in there burning things and not…

Emma Jack (11:07)

No, apparently. exactly. Exactly.

Burning things, looking around, but not necessarily knowing what to look for as well. Because again, the surgeon I saw as much as he was the head of Obst-Gyn at our hospital, he was also an obstetrician. He delivered a lot of babies. This was not his bread and butter. And so about six months later, all of my symptoms were still present, if not worse. And I went back and I said, you know, like this.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (11:32)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Emma Jack (11:44)

We gotta we gotta get something else going here and his options at that time I remember very vividly saying birth control is not an option for me There’s just too many other side effects that I just cannot deal with or there is there other Integrative ways nutrition lifestyle that I’m missing that I could Perfect even more and I’ll never forget him looking at me and being like there’s absolutely nothing you can do. There’s nothing more I can do for you if you don’t want to go on birth control.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (12:13)

Mm.

Do you, how?

Emma Jack (12:18)

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (12:24)

In terms of how that sat with you, basically said take birth control or nothing at all, no referral, absolutely nothing, no encouragement, no anything. What happened at that point? What did you do?

Emma Jack (12:31)

Nothing.

Yeah, I remember and I know for lots of women, this is not an unfamiliar scene. I remember leaving that appointment, getting into my car and just absolutely losing it. Just being so devastated that this is a very real thing that is impacting my everyday life, my work, my relationships. And you’re telling me absolutely nothing we can do, nothing we’re going to look at more sort of if you don’t want my option, you’re out of here.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (12:50)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (13:08)

And you know, I, I always come back to, I am very, very privileged. like my privilege is all around me. I am white, I am cisgender, I am highly educated, I work in healthcare myself, my husband is a doctor, and I just can, could not stop and still cannot stop thinking about how I’m probably still getting the best end of the stick.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (13:39)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (13:39)

You know, like that treatment was probably still pretty good compared to what some other people may be experiencing within this system. And so I started, you know, I knew that I was gonna have to take the lead on where I went next and figure out my next steps. I started working with a naturopathic doctor. I started working with pelvic floor physio. I started working with some allied healthcare providers just to help even symptomatically. And truthfully, it wasn’t until, and this is why I’m so honored to share my story is because when you started sharing your story and your treatment and that you would experience gaslighting, I think that added a lot of fuel to my fire of like, no, I need to get to the bottom of this now. And I started looking into the evidence and I started to find providers in Canada who were doing the tests and the things that needed to be done in order to get a diagnosis. In Canada, healthcare, again, it has its benefits, but it also has its downfalls. Our healthcare is public. And so wait times and bureaucracy and politics are very real within this system. And so as much as I knew what I wanted and what I needed, who I needed to see. 

The path there is not a linear path. You really have to truly fight often to get what you need. And it took years of sort of trying to direct myself to get to see the individual who was able to do the appropriate imaging and had the background in endometriosis to get me the diagnosis. It was like I…I was very sure, just even intuitively within my body, that this was my diagnosis. But to get and find the person to give me those answers took two years, you know? And a lot of miscommunications and missteps along the way. And so getting that diagnosis in January, as much as it was…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (15:48)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (16:02)

you know, my, my endometriosis was very significant, was very severe. I just remember like the wave of relief that washed over me because it was that feeling of like, yeah, I wasn’t crazy this whole time. Like I knew, I know my body and it was like just this deep exhale of like, okay, like you’ve got this. unfortunately in Canada, you know, the number of surgeons doing excision surgery are rare. There isn’t a lot of funding for the education. There’s not a lot of funding for the surgeries themselves. And there was sort of one surgeon within my province that was able to take on my case. I reached out to him. I MacGyver tried to find his email. I personally emailed him, which I would never do, but I knew. I was going to have to get crafty if I wanted the care I needed. And I emailed him and I just said, I’m just wondering, I’ve been referred to you. I’m just wondering what your wait times are like. Cause I knew it was going to be long. and very graciously, he got back to me and let me know it was four years.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (17:16)

Four years. Wow.

Emma Jack (17:18)

Yeah, it was four years from time of referral to me getting on an operating table and having the treatment and care I needed. And that was devastating to me. I just couldn’t imagine living four more years the way I was living with the quality of life I was living. I wasn’t able to work as a PT at that point.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (17:36)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (17:46)

Socially wasn’t able to make very many plans or wasn’t able to hold plans. There was just so many things within my life I had had to press pause on and to think I was going to have to do that for four years of my life. Just it was, yeah, it was untenable.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (18:05)

Let’s touch on part of your experience that I remember us discussing previously about the attitude towards…The easiest way to say this is that coming from the obvious patriarchal background that we all do, and we are asked to still thrive in that scenario where it’s still very patriarchal and somehow just ignore that and still thrive, which is impossible to do, that in that type of society, no matter what country you’re in, there is a value attached to women that seems to

only be high based on your fertility, right? And if you’re fertility, if you want to get pregnant. And my goodness, there’s so much to be said about that, but I know that you have some experience with attitudes towards the caregivers that you saw in healthcare having particularly antiquated or let’s just face it, kind of gross out date, not even outdated, it never was, you know,

Emma Jack (18:59)

Thanks.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (19:21)

to talk to women like this that wanted to offer you services or would be more likely to offer you surgery or services if you were trying to preserve fertility. How did that land with you?

Emma Jack (19:37)

Yeah, it came up in so many different ways. came up in so many different ways. Initially, the Ops gyn that I was seeing had sort of told me, which is a very old and should be quite antiquated at this point, that you know what, sometimes if people get pregnant, their symptoms are better. And it’s like…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (19:42)

Yeah.

We can just lay that one down, right? We can just burn that one right now. That myth that pregnancy is going to help with endometriosis. False, yeah.

Emma Jack (20:13)

Right? And as if anyone would suggest that if you weren’t planning on having children, you should maybe renegotiate with that, that with yourself in order to solve your healthcare diagnosis. That is just, it’s insane. It’s insane. And I have felt very rooted in, in, you know, my choice not to have children.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (20:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Emma Jack (20:43)

But every step along the way of getting this diagnosis, it seemed like people were very concerned about my fertility status. And I had to continue to remind them that no, no, no, my quality of life.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (20:59)

Yeah, yes, yeah, it’s priority.

Emma Jack (21:01)

my,

yeah, my first, was, I thought I was going for my imaging for an endo diagnosis. I was given an appointment, with the specialist and I showed up to that appointment and they actually told me it was a fertility consult because they always do that before moving forward with an endo diagnosis.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (21:21)

Mm.

Emma Jack (21:27)

And I had never consented to that. Nobody had ever shared that with me. I was floored. I am just trying to feel good within my own body. And you’re trying to tell me what I should be worried about. And certainly there were some surgeons that I talked to prior to choosing where I ultimately ended up having surgery.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (21:37)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Emma Jack (21:54)

where it almost felt like as soon as I said I wasn’t looking to have kids or child care, where it was almost like they didn’t care as much anymore. They’re like, really? And like, almost question, are you sure? And just like that constant questioning, like, yes, I know what I want for my life and for my body, and I’m absolutely sure, and I don’t need people questioning that. You know, I had been through the wringer at this point.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (22:17)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (22:23)

Those were like the last sort of external pressures I needed to be placed on myself or to be made feel like I was less of a candidate to help because my ultimate goal wasn’t to have a child. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (22:33)

Mm-hmm.

And

that, so to just, you know, encapsulate what that does to you as a person, as a human being, as a woman, is this incredible, women are already conditioned to care give and to feel guilty about everyone else’s emotions and feelings and cater to all of that and make sure everyone’s happy in the room and then take care of ourselves.

Emma Jack (23:01)

Yes.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (23:08)

So that’s a heavy emotional and mental impact. Let’s shift to that because there are so many women that will listen to this podcast, that are listening to this podcast, who have felt the same thing. They have been blown off, brushed off, or made to feel less than when they don’t want to pursue treatment exclusively because of fertility.

So how has that, how have you dealt with that? I know there have been, maybe in talking about some of the moments you felt misunderstood by doctors, family or friends, how did you handle that situation in order to take care of your own emotional and mental health?

Emma Jack (23:53)

Yeah, I think that’s honestly probably been a bigger like, yes, of course, like my surgery was very impactful and very important, huge part. But I really feel like unpacking and working through and processing all of the trauma, shame, guilt, frustration, anger, fear along the way has been such an important part of my recovery.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (24:12)

Hmm.

Emma Jack (24:22)

Again, from a place of privilege, I’ve been able to work with a therapist every step of the way through this, which has been so valuable. Journaling for me has been a really, really supportive process. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Nicole Sachs and her work, but journal speak has been like a very big part of my practice. It’s just a journaling practice.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (24:29)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (24:45)

20 minutes once a day where it’s like no holds barred. You just like get out what you need to get out. And that has been very, very therapeutic for me. And I think in this process, just because I have had to really MacGyver my care and make connections and have more conversations, that’s where I realized like how strong and powerful the endo community really is. I’ve

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (24:51)

Yeah, very cathartic.

Emma Jack (25:13)

felt so much support and safety just in talking with other people who’ve been through it and are in it. And I’m so grateful. I think before I was kind of like outside looking in on the endo community because I didn’t feel, I didn’t have a diagnosis. I didn’t know if that’s what it was. But I was always like, man, like people who have endo, like they’re really passionate about this. And I didn’t get it until that was me.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (25:38)

Hmm.

Emma Jack (25:41)

And there are so many, there’s so much power in sharing our stories and to help us not feel alone because that the whole process getting to diagnosis felt so lonely and so isolating, not only kind of socially are you isolated because you’re not able to do what you want to be able to do, but it’s also not the stuff that people are talking about or that you even necessarily are ready and wanting to share.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (25:41)

Yeah.

care.

Emma Jack (26:11)

And so I think once I had the diagnosis to be able to process that with others has been extremely valuable.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (26:22)

Yeah, there’s a unique situation that you’re in when you are in the purgatory, if we can call it that, between that long stretch of it’s not two years, it’s like five years, seven years, 10 years, in your case, 25 years, that long stretch of not knowing and also thinking you did something wrong, right? Or that you couldn’t…

figure this out yourself or and the number of times you probably were told it was anxiety, you just needed to calm down, right? Yes, just your two seconds, it’s a veiled way of labeling you with hysteria, like it’s 1892 still. so that long, dry desert like purgatory stretch,

Emma Jack (26:52)

for

very sensitive, like, yeah.

Right.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (27:17)

is made harder by the fact that you can’t even land on what it is. Like, there’s no diagnosis, right? So it’s not like there’s a validation of a support community, just like what you’re saying. You do end up looking from the outside in until then in your case in January, answers finally came, right? So that, that I just, I’m…

kind of reiterating what you said because, you for those of you who are listening, to be able to trust your body, to trust what you’re feeling and know that there are healthcare providers that will listen and do listen and will take that seriously is maybe the most powerful takeaway, you know, from our conversation today because you went through…

a quarter of a century of not being listened to before that happened.

Emma Jack (28:17)

Yeah, and I think for so long, because I had all of these different symptoms that even I saw kind of as like a bunch of different issues, I think I developed a bit of a story that like, my gosh, my body is just like so broken, right? Not realizing it could all be explained by one thing. You know, this myriad of symptoms all of a sudden made a lot of sense. It’s like a

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (28:33)

Mm, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (28:46)

course you have hip pain. Of course you’re bloated. Of course you’re getting these migraines. Like it all came together. And so we think that also changed my own story about my body. And and that has takes processing and time and and work but is I’m so grateful to be there now. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (29:10)

And a village, yeah,

and a village. for, again, this is a unique conversation because we’re talking across borders here, really, from the United States to Canada and realizing we’re talking to a lot of women who may be stuck in a situation where they don’t feel like they can access care. And it brings to mind a quote from, I don’t know if it’s been Canada, y’all know Mr. Rogers, remember the show?

Emma Jack (29:38)

Yes,

of course. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (29:39)

Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers, Fred Rogers.

He has a lovely little book out that’s just full of his anecdotes that came out, I believe, after his passing. one of the things, I think one of his most famous quotes is to, you know, when you’re going through these hard, tough times is look for the helpers. It’s what his mother told him, that there are always gonna be helpers out there. so that moves me. I know I have…

You know, helpers in my story, you have helpers in your story. So let’s talk a little bit about that. That all came to fruition really in the last year, right? The last year. And you had quite a, you have quite a story in how you finally ended up getting, right, to the care that you needed. You contemplated several things and talked to several different people. So, you know, let’s…

I mean, who’s in the helper category for you, for everyone listening, because we want to point people also to the resources. And anything we mentioned, you guys, we will be putting in the show notes that is of help to you guys so that you can just kind of click and go on that.

Emma Jack (30:53)

Yeah, so I mean, the first person that comes to mind is you because you seeing you in that I remember really clear as day would have been last fall, you were wearing your like Wonder Woman Halloween costume in your hospital bed post-op. And I don’t know if you remember this, but I remember sending you a voice memo via Instagram. I sent you a voice memo and I was just like,

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (31:06)

Ha ha ha!

was almost a year ago.

my gosh.

Emma Jack (31:23)

Thank you so much for talking about this. Thank you so much for sharing this journey. I’m realizing like, this is also my journey and I need help and, you know, do you see people internationally and yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (31:37)

my God, I’d forgotten about that

initial Instagram and so much had happened and I, that was like a vulnerable moment for me. My face is like red because it was Halloween, you know? Yes, I was having surgery on Halloween and I’ve never like dressed up for Halloween or done any of that. I’m not like a dresser upper. I’m more of the introvert handing out candy. And so it was like way outside my comfort zone to put on the Wonder Woman costume.

Emma Jack (31:46)

You

It was Halloween. Yeah, so it’s like a year ago.

You

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (32:06)

and take it to the hospital and put it on in pre-op. So yes, I do remember that message now. I thought, when I put it up there, I was like, I don’t know, don’t know, I don’t know. I probably shouldn’t even, I should just be focusing on getting better. was like, but if I’m going through this, maybe it will help somebody.

Emma Jack (32:09)

i love it. i love it!

Yeah, and it did. And it did.

So that’s initially how I got connected with you. I think through even like my professional network, I was working, I am a physical therapist by trade, but I also work with other healthcare providers helping them, you know, find joy and passion in their work. And one of the women that I was working with is a pelvic health

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (32:53)

which is awesome.

Emma Jack (32:58)

therapist and she had mentioned to me the endo summit. And she said, you know what, like, I would just highly recommend you can just like you can watch it from home. You can you know, you don’t have to make the trip to it was in Florida. You don’t have to make the trip but you can watch it from home. And so I think I had just can I like connected with you and we had had an initial appointment I attended virtually the endo summit.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (33:10)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Emma Jack (33:26)

and I literally did not miss a minute of that event. It was so good and I got to see the helpers in this field. I got to know, ooh, okay, here are some surgeons that seem like they really have it dialed in as to how to take care of this. Here are the counseling services. Here are all these people. It was an absolute goldmine.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (33:30)

that was great. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It’s like a gold mine. It’s an Endo gold mine.

Emma Jack (33:56)

I honestly,

I sat myself in this chair, like didn’t leave for 72 hours. I was just like so happy to like hear the information straight from people who were on the front lines of this and really understood what needed to be done. And so I kind of like took all of that information and really started to run with it. You know, I bought Amy Stein’s book. She has an amazing book.

connected with different surgeons that I was exposed to through the endosummit and we had talked about some surgeons and yeah, it’s so wild to me. Again, Canada being public health care, you can’t just like call a surgeon’s office and say, hey, I want to see you. So it’s a very different way of going about it. was, I still will forever be shocked. You know, I contacted some different surgeons throughout the US and

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (34:43)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (34:52)

to have their admin say, he can speak with you on Thursday. It was like Thursday of this year, like what? And so ultimately I connected with Dr. Sinervo at the Center for Endometriosis and was able to get a consult with him. And I think it’s really important that I feel this as a healthcare provider, I think.

the connection and the relationship and that therapeutic alliance is really important. So I have no doubt that all of the surgeons I spoke with were phenomenal and very competent and would get me where I needed to go. But I just, I felt more comfortable and just like a sense of relief almost in talking with Dr. Sinervo and you know, entrusting the Center for Endocare to take on my case.

I think also too, there was a Dr. Synder Vos Canadian, and he actually did his training in the city that I live in, where my husband actually works. So I just felt like, okay, this feels like a connection. And so yeah, we took the steps forward to get care in the US because I couldn’t wait any longer. And once I knew that…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (35:47)

That’s right, yeah.

Wow. Yeah.

Emma Jack (36:11)

sort of my opportunity to live a very different life could be a lot closer. Yes, absolutely. know, finances were a big, big part of that. And they feel very fortunate that we were able to, you know, take that step. But I got such great care. And, you know, I’m just overthrown. I’m actually almost four months post-op today.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (36:23)

Huge, yeah.

Yes.

Emma Jack (36:41)

and I just cannot believe how much better I feel how different I feel. That’s even been something that’s been so interesting is I’m realizing now how off I was before. I don’t think I realized how off I was before because it had just become the new normal. And just even to wake up in the morning and feel like I have

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (36:55)

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (37:05)

The energy to get out of bed is just like still very novel and exciting to me. You know, all of those symptoms I explained earlier that I was having just are no longer a part of my story. It’s massive, massive.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (37:19)

And that’s huge. I mean, that’s

huge. I’m just gonna repeat that just in case y’all didn’t hear. All the symptoms that Emma was experiencing before are just not there anymore. And you’re doing some really cool things now on the other side of this. You’re starting to get out and get back to living, basically. Again, doing all the stuff that you love. Activity, right?

Emma Jack (37:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (37:47)

All those physical activity things that as physios, and even not, you don’t need to be a physio to just love being outside, to love physical activity and to be able to just break a sweat or whatever. And when you have that, various degrees of endometriosis, all that gets taken away from you. And so tell us about what you’re doing now.

Emma Jack (38:09)

Yeah, I feel like I’m like doing all of the things now because I’m so excited that I can do all of the things. And yeah, activity has been a huge one. Even just like I celebrated so much feeling sweat come off my body because I hadn’t been able to, you know, work myself to the point of a sweat prior to surgery for at least a year prior to surgery. And so

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (38:13)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (38:35)

Yeah, signing up for a spin class or a yoga class and knowing I will actually be able to attend and that it is safe. there’s something about it just, it feels like I can be in my body more. I’m not monitoring my body from my brain. I’m like really in it when I’m moving now. And so that is, you know, maybe

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (38:53)

Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Emma Jack (39:02)

from the outside a subtle shift, but it’s a very big one within me.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (39:06)

It is a big one. I once described it, and I think you and I might have talked about this before, but being in your body means that you can just go like, you go out and you take a run, you walk your dog, you do whatever, and you don’t have to think about the fact that you have a colon. Right? That’s the example of like before, if you’re living outside it, you’re like, well, should I go that?

Emma Jack (39:27)

Yes.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (39:36)

far, should I leave now, should I, I might need because you feel like you have a colon, you feel like you have a vagina, you feel like you, you feel your small intestine, right? You feel all of those things because of what’s happening in the disease process and now you can just go be and do.

Emma Jack (39:41)

Yeah.

Yeah, even the mental gymnastics of like you said, what do I need to bring with me? I, everywhere I went, I made sure I had ibuprofen. I made sure I had the cramp cream. I made sure I had my like portable heat pack. What I was wearing, you know, now I don’t even think about as much what I’m wearing. I was forcing myself to wear sort of leggings and oversized sweatshirts. Cause that was what was kind of comfy. And uh-oh, if you put jeans on, that may not feel good halfway through the day. And so.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (40:09)

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (40:23)

Like there’s so many subtle things I can look back now and realize were under the control of that disease. That weren’t, wasn’t me, it wasn’t what I wanted. It was me adapting to the disease. And so to be able to just get up in the morning and know that I can do the things I wanna do and present myself the way I wanna present myself, I just got back from a trip. I went out to visit some girlfriends in Denver.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (40:31)

of Endo. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Emma Jack (40:53)

two weeks ago and it was such a big win and anybody who has any sort of chronic illness will understand to plan that trip and not have the wonder of, will that be okay? Will I actually be able to go? Am I gonna be able to keep up? There was so much surrounding every choice I was making in my life before that just like that mental load has just slowed.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (41:21)

Yeah, that’s worth like a, that’s like the value of that pause because you can just go do the trip. You can just be in the moment. And if endometriosis steals one major thing out of your life, it is the ability to be able to do that and to have that back might be the most valuable win of all. Yeah.

Emma Jack (41:47)

For sure.

For sure.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (41:50)

So what do you wish people, one more question. We could just keep going. And I have other things, I have other ideas too. So maybe we’ll make this a part two. But what is one thing that you wish more people understood about endometriosis?

Emma Jack (41:52)

Yeah, I know.

What?

think one thing I wish I knew was that it was more than just your reproductive system. Like, again, I work in healthcare. I’m surrounded by people who work in healthcare. I didn’t know that. The way it has been portrayed, the way it’s talked about is very much like a reproductive disease, whereas my disease was mostly impacting my GI system. And I just, I purely did not know.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (42:22)

So many, so many doubt, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Emma Jack (42:39)

that

so many of the symptoms, there’s such a variety in symptoms. Everybody’s presentation is so different. There’s sort of no two alike, which is what makes it challenging, but also, you know, that’s why you have to keep pushing forward and keep talking about it. And that’s why I feel so compelled to keep talking about it because…

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (42:59)

Yeah.

Emma Jack (43:05)

I didn’t know until you shared. And so if I can be the person that somebody hears it from, I’m thrilled.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (43:11)

Awesome. Yeah, I think a good take home would be if you’ve seen one person with endo, you’ve seen one person with endo, you know, like in so many other conditions and that we don’t get into the habit of labeling someone even though it can be chronic or persistent for many, many women, myself included, you included, and so many others who have been through the excision process. It does not mean that that chronic and persistent actually does persist.

Emma Jack (43:20)

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (43:41)

things drastically change after you’ve had an excellent excision done and the good follow-up rehab, your life is entirely different and you can go, what we’ve really been describing is out of that survival mode, out of worrying where the next bathroom is or if the meal’s gonna settle right or if your pants are gonna fit at the end of the day to just like, hey, I’m gonna take off on a two mile run, you know?

Emma Jack (44:08)

Yeah, I’m still in the new phase of this and it still feels so surprising. I’m like, my gosh, people have just been out here living like this. What? This is incredible.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (44:21)

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, that’s fantastic. So we can go with the proper care. Endometriosis doesn’t have to be a life sentence of things that take you out of pursuing what your dreams are and what you want to do. And I hope that if employers or potential employers or whomever you might be involved with, business partners, et cetera, are listening, it’s that because someone…

Emma Jack (44:23)

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (44:47)

 a woman is saddled with a genetic diagnosis like endometriosis doesn’t prevent her from doing a job well done, from pursuing what she wants to do, from working and working out strenuously if you want to. It’s just that we’re on the cusp of women recognizing there is excellent care out there. And that once you do get that, your life, you’re handed your life again. there’s just so much hope.

in that and so it is a good time to be alive because we do have these things available to us Can it get better in terms of accessibility? I think that’s what we’d both probably say in terms of you know looking forward What would we like to have have happen? Well, we’d like to have that excision available in your hometown of London, Ontario that would be amazing instead of me and

Emma Jack (45:21)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (45:41)

thousands and pun thousands of other women having to fly across the country into different countries just so they can get adequate excision care.

Emma Jack (45:50)

Yeah, yeah, it needs to be more accessible. Funding needs to go into making sure that there’s more expert excision surgeons. Because no one should be made to live the way that we had to live prior to surgery and knowing on the other side how much better you can feel. It feels criminal that this isn’t something people have access to.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (46:19)

Well said. Thank you for being here, Emma.

Emma Jack (46:22)

Thank you. Thank you for everything. Everything.

Dr. Ginger Garner PT, DPT (46:24)

Ha ha ha.