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In this episode, Dr. Ginger sat down with Dr. Sara Reardon, better known as The Vagina Whisperer (to all you followers on IG). She has set about to improve the lives of women through teaching them about their bodies and pelvic health, with a passionate and light-hearted attitude. As you’ll find her dressed up in a vulva costume regularly on her IG page.
Labor, birth, pregnancy, and postpartum, regardless of the details, require pelvic health therapy. The possibility for birth, pregnancy, and early motherhood to be a wonderful experience is wildly exciting, but it does require that you have a good support system and knowledgeable and caring healthcare professionals around you.
Want to have the best possible chance at an un-medicated birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to be supported and heal well after a c-section birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to ease pain that your doctor said is a normal part of pregnancy?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to stop peeing on yourself after giving birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
For a long time in our history as a country, talking about anything to do with your pelvis was completely avoided. Women’s health issues were basically ignored. So it’s no wonder it’s taken such a long time to understand why pelvic health physical therapy is such an important profession in the healthcare field.
When you consider all the issues that women (or men) can have regarding their pelvic health, it can turn pretty serious, very quickly. Understanding this nature of pelvic health, Dr. Reardon knew that she could probably reach more people and get more people open to pelvic health by using humor and making it fun. After all, the vagina is only another body part, just like your knee.
And just like you can get knee pain…the vagina and surrounding areas can suffer from pain and other problems too.
Dr. Sara Reardon is a board-certified pelvic health physical therapist and founder of The Vagina Whisperer, an online pelvic floor fitness platform with online, on-demand workouts for your pelvic floor and core. She has been a pelvic health PT for 17 years. You can find her on Instagram at @the.vagina.whisperer and TikTok at @thevagwhisperer.
Labor, birth, pregnancy, and postpartum, regardless of the details, require pelvic health therapy. The possibility for birth, pregnancy, and early motherhood to be a wonderful experience is wildly exciting, but it does require that you have a good support system and knowledgeable and caring healthcare professionals around you.
Want to have the best possible chance at an un-medicated birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to be supported and heal well after a c-section birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to ease pain that your doctor said is a normal part of pregnancy?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
Want to stop peeing on yourself after giving birth?
See a pelvic health physical therapist.
In this episode, Dr. Ginger sat down with Dr. Sara Reardon, better known as The Vagina Whisperer (to all you followers on IG). She has set about to improve the lives of women through teaching them about their bodies and pelvic health, with a passionate and light-hearted attitude. You’ll find her dressed up in a vulva costume regularly on her IG page.
Pelvic health physical therapy can be life changing throughout your pregnancy and beyond and we want to make sure you have access to care and know how to find the support that you deserve.
0:00 Dr. Ginger Garner: Hello, everyone. We are back again with a new episode. And you hear me say this a lot, but I swear to you that every single week, it’s, I can’t, I’m just like amazed. I’m like, whoo, I can’t wait to introduce this guest. So to begin with, first, welcome, Dr. Sarah Reardon.
0:24 Dr. Sara Reardon: Thank you.
0:25 Dr. Ginger Garner: To the podcast. Thank you for being here. I am super excited because I remember seeing your evolution, which were all evolving. But I remember when you were choosing the name for your Instagram handle.
0:41 Dr. Sara Reardon: Wow. Long time ago.
0:41 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yes. And I remember it like it was yesterday. Do you remember weird random things? Well, I remember that because you were saying, what about this name or what about that name? And I was like, oh, that’s so fantastic. And then here we are. So I feel like I should introduce you as the Vagina Whisperer also, in addition to your actual name.
So short bio, you guys. She doesn’t need an introduction, but I’m doing this anyway, because I love to do all the bells and whistles for people. Dr. Sara Reardon is a board-certified pelvic health PT. I was trying to put all that together into just her last name. So that came out fun. She is the founder of The Vagina Whisperer, an online pelvic floor fitness platform with online on-demand workouts for your pelvic floor and core. She’s been a pelvic PT for 17 years, and you can find her, as you know, on Instagram, at The Vagina Whisperer, and on TikTok. Major, like, you know, kudos for that @TheVagWhisperer. Okay, so welcome.
1:54 Dr. Sara Reardon: Thank you so much, Ginger, for having me.
1:56 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, I’m so glad that you’re here. I see all your awesome posts on Instagram all the time. I also am in the clinic several days of the week. And most days of the week when I talk about people you can follow, they’re like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I follow the Vagina Whisperer. I’m like, good, good, solid information. Yes.
But I never get to ask these like basic questions because we’ve gotten to work together once, which was a lot of fun. It was also stressful, not the work, but that was like COVID.
02:30 Dr. Sara Reardon: It was in the very beginning of COVID.
02:34 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah. When none of us knew what we were doing.
02:36 Dr. Sara Reardon: Right.
02:37 Dr. Ginger Garner: I know. Yeah, totally. But one story that I’ve never heard is what got you on the path to just pelvic health in general.
02:44 Dr. Sara Reardon: So I have been a pelvic health PT for 17 years, as you mentioned, and it’s really the only type of therapy that I’ve practiced as a professional. I went to graduate school at Washington University in St. Louis and had a professor, Dr. Tracy Spitznagel, who specialized in what we called women’s health at the time. It wasn’t pelvic health.
And Tracy would give us, you know, I think at the time it was much more education in this realm than I think a lot of other schools were getting. And I was like, huh, this is really interesting as a woman to learn more about my own body. And I just thought it was really fascinating, really cool.
And then I did a rotation, a clinical rotation in pelvic health. And I was like, oh, working with vaginas, like working with a foot, like no big deal, just another body part. And so it was just like, oh, this is kind of cool. And then just the patients really. So I think working with people who were sharing really intimate details of their life and you were privy and honored to be working with them to really see the changes in their quality of life from helping them with pelvic health issues was just so rewarding to me. And so it’s what I started in right out of grad school in 2007. And that’s all that I’ve ever done.
03:56 Dr. Ginger Garner: Wow, that’s, you have a unique story, really. But you also had a great mentor, because not everybody has Tracy Spitznagel to learn from. And you’re absolutely right. Well, I feel like I went to the PT school in the dark ages, and nobody was learning anything at that time, you know. So yeah, you’re right. A lot of schools still are not able to offer that kind of, you know, luxury for education.
So gosh, that’s a wonderful start that you got in pelvic health. What are, what’s one of the first, and this is totally off script, I wasn’t going to ask this, but now I’m curious. Like, what were the first few challenges you experienced? Because most of us go like into orthopedics or something more vanilla and you just jumped right in. So what did you find challenging about doing that?
04:49 Dr. Sara Reardon: You know, I think that I remember my first few weeks, I moved to Austin for my first job in pelvic health. It was working at a clinic that only did pelvic health. It was nothing else. And I, again, had a great mentor there. And it was like, oh, wait, I don’t have anybody else to go to for questions. It was like, their care is solely in my hands with respect to, I had my boss and mentor, but it was like, oh, what I do is really gonna be what makes or breaks the difference in their care.
And so at the time, I mean, I was so hungry to get information. I was, I was 26 and I was, you know, laying out on the weekends at the pool, but I was reading books on vulvovaginal disorders and interstitial cystitis and just, you know, I was just so hungry to learn. And I think that one, recognizing that I was the specialist that, you know, I wasn’t the student anymore as a new grad. And I think the other thing was people didn’t really understand the role that pelvic health therapy could play.
I mean I was pounding the pavement knocking on doctors doors and dropping off flyers and holding community seminars. And I mean people would kind of ignore me they would be like I don’t even see who would need this and so I’m like so many people need this so. It was just at a time when even medical professionals didn’t know what this is, let alone people in the community.
So it really felt like David versus Goliath trying to tell people like, no, this is what we can do. This is how we can help and people don’t have to suffer. So it was kind of some bigger challenges and then even just some day-to-day challenges as a new clinician.
06:19 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, that’s a really good kind of segue into the next thing that I was curious about because 2005, let’s see, 2007, if we look back to when you started there. 2005, there was, you know, the really, the internet was barely born, and social media was a brand new thing. I remember the first thing that I tweeted, I was like, what is this even? So fast forward, here we are in the thick of things, and you have this amazing Instagram following that you created. How did that start? And like I mentioned, I remember when you were first doing it, but what’s the story there?
07:02 Dr. Sara Reardon: So that I think is really quite an interesting story. And I think that all of the times I felt that there were leaps in my career or in my professional life, it was a huge risk. It was like, I’m gonna go do this. I don’t know if anybody’s gonna come. I’m really nervous about it, but I just feel like how can I not do this, right? So whether it was starting in pelvic health therapy as a new grad when nobody else was jumping right in. And then starting my Instagram account, I did that in 2016 when I was pregnant with my second son. I had a one and a half year old at the time I was pregnant again.
And all of my friends were like, ‘Hey, I’m pregnant. Like, what did you do for, you know, your pregnancy for perineal massage, or, you know, what are some stretches I could do to help prep for birth?’ Or, you know, ‘how do I modify my workouts for you know, crunches and planks.’
And so I was just like, hey, I’m writing the same email over and over. Let me just start an Instagram account so that y’all can go back and reference all of this stuff when you have your babies. And so it was really for my group of friends who were all pregnant and postpartum and having kids. And they’re the ones who called me the vagina whisperer. Like they came up with that name at a 4th of July party, you know, many years before.
And so I, you know, on Facebook I shared, ‘hey I’ve got a new account if you know anybody who would want to follow you know family and friends and it was like 500 people and I was like yes 500 followers. And then I think the growth of the account is really a testament to how much people wanted this information, but they didn’t know where else to get it.
It was people sharing the feed over and over of like, look at this cool tip. Why didn’t anybody tell me this? No, but I’ve never heard of pelvic floor therapy. And so it was really just people saying, Hey, nobody else is telling us about this, but we heard about this really cool thing that can help us. And we want other people to know as well. So it’s just really been very organic. A lot of work, you know, there’s a lot that goes into it. And social media has changed over the years. But I think more than anything, the passion that I have to see more people getting this support, and this type of therapy has just continued to grow, which is what really drives, you know, all of the work that I’m doing right now.
09:20 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, absolutely. I think that, you know, if anybody runs an Instagram account, you automatically know that’s a lot of work. So all the things that you do, all the fantastic labia wearing, you know, that you do and the colors. In fact, I picked this up off the back of my chair today. And I love it. That’s so syncing with Sara’s Instagram account. I’m going to wear this today. And I’m wearing Barbie pink for you guys that are not watching the YouTube version.
09:50 Dr. Sara Reardon: And it’s stunning. It looks fantastic.
09:53 Dr. Ginger Garner: It’s nice and fuzzy and comfortable. And it’s exactly, I think, the way we want, you know, kind of moms to feel: supported in a warm, safe, comfortable, you know, environment, but also to make it accessible. And that’s what you’ve done really successfully on your Instagram account. So…
10:13 Dr. Sara Reardon: Thank you. And that was one thing I was really thoughtful about. It wasn’t using really technical medical terms. I’m like, people don’t understand what dyspareunia is, but if they’re like, hey, does it hurt when you have sex? Yes, they get that. So I think it was really trying to use language that’s disarming, that’s understandable, that’s not super medical and just bring a bit of levity to it. Hence the vulva costume. You know, I think it’s like, let’s talk about these things because it’s kind of fun and funny, but it also, you know, just can help normalize the conversations as well.
10:43 Dr. Ginger Garner: Totally. Yeah. Just like, you know, probably we can both relate to this. It’s the same thing as talking to my kids about anatomy or physiology or any of those things. It’s like, let’s just dispel any kind of stigma that goes with it. Just call it what it is, you know? Yeah. It’s a vulva. Yep, you have labia. Mm hmm. And that’s a vagina, right? Yeah. Okay, moving on.
11:06 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah, it is. I just answered this question for my six year old the other day. And he was like, Why do I have a penis? And you don’t? And I said, Well, because you know, that’s what you were born with. This is what mommy was born with. Mommy had a baby. And this is where the baby comes out. I mean, it’s like, He’s like, okay.
11:22 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah. If we’re matter of fact, that’s exactly right. They will move on with it. I had kept a box of anatomy cards and of course they had their own little kid versions of books, but I had just a regular box of simplified anatomy cards and they are just matter of fact. If you are that way with them, they’re like, okay, moving on. Can I have my snack now?.
11:46 Dr. Sara Reardon: Exactly It’s just kind of normal conversation. It’s just a thing. And you have three boys as well.
11:51 Dr. Ginger Garner: So I’m sure you’ve got you’ve been through all of this. It’s all penises in the house. If I turn my camera around right now, you could see my female black Labrador laying on the sofa over here. Because I had to have some balance in the house. Yeah. Even though she’d already had a hysterectomy, so. But our parts don’t make us one way or the other.
12:16 Dr. Sara Reardon: Right, exactly.
12:17 Dr. Ginger Garner: There she is with her pronouns on the sofa. So that kind of leads me to my next question then, because your Instagram account is such a sensation. It’s something that I actually check into every day to see what kind of cool, fun things are happening that you’re doing. That’s all about advocacy. And advocacy is such a dry word.
All the bright messaging and color and reels and all of the things that can get our message across really at the end of the day is just kind of this boring word called advocacy. But when we talk about advocacy for prenatal health and postpartum rights and what should be normal, that’s something that’s impacting life or death situations, you know, it’s a big deal. So tell me about some of the, you know, from your perspective, what are some of the big messages that you think are important that people need to hear that moms need to hear or people giving birth need to hear or people who love someone giving birth needs to hear about today?
13:27 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah, I think it’s you know I never really thought about it that way, but it is really, it’s really a plea for advocacy. And it’s not even just a plea to the medical system to advocate more in their health care practices. To have better practices and therefore better outcomes for women and moms. But it’s as patients, as individuals, as women, as birthing people, we have to advocate for ourselves because the system is set up, unfortunately, right now where we are in a revolving door of healthcare.
And it is, you know, one baby born, one mom has a baby, come on out, next one in. And it’s literally just within a 24 hour revolving door. And the practices that are being used in these delivery rooms are so outdated and not evidence-based at all. And I think you and I see it on the other side, on the postpartum side, where people are having these pelvic floor issues. Where I’m going, why did it have to happen that way?
You know, in 2016, when I started this account, I mean, the C-section rates were just skyrocketing. And I was like, why is this happening? Why am I seeing so many moms who are coming in with first time C-sections? And then you start diving into the research and you find the interventions that make a difference and how we’re, you know, putting time limits on different practices. And so I was just like, you know, we can’t be passengers in our own healthcare.
And I’ve struggled with this myself as a mom, as a pregnant person, that you have to fight, really fight for what you think is best. And you have to put in all of these support structures, which are costly, which we don’t all have the privilege to be able to access or afford to really optimize the outcomes for yourself. Because once you get to the hospital, it’s like you’re really handing over that care to somebody else. And not, you know, having a support person makes a difference, but really having a voice is really going to help improve your outcomes because you have to advocate for yourself.
And I found this even as a mom having kids it’s like, you know, who’s gonna advocate for my kid if not for me? It’s not gonna be their doctor. It’s not gonna be their teacher. It has to be me. And that’s how we have to take it upon ourselves. And that’s how we have to take it, you know, for our kids.
But I think that even a step before advocacy is we really need to be very informed. I think oftentimes it was like, ‘hey, I’m gonna go and I’m gonna do whatever the doctor says.’ Well, I just think that those are different times. And I think that we know now with the outcomes that we have that you really have to be very informed and really, really advocate for yourselves to have better outcomes. Even with that, it’s still really, really hard.
16:07 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, it’s, it is, um, the waters of the big money making system that is birth in this country are very murky. It’s a sketchy, safety situation because it is easy for a practitioner who hasn’t picked up a paper or gone to a continuing education course and is using outdated practices to then come into the delivery room and frankly gaslight a mom or make her afraid.
You know, I’ve even heard these awful phrases of practitioners coming in and saying, ‘you don’t want to hurt your baby, do you? Then this is what you have to do.’ Which is a massive red flag. I was going to say big, but I’m just going for massive. Yeah. It’s a massive red flag for someone to say that instead of calmly sitting you down and talking to you about your options and giving you informed consent.
So I think, you know, I wasn’t planning on like jumping into specific interventions, but because we’re talking about prenatal/postpartum, there are a lot of interventions. And I know you probably hear the same thing where moms come in and go, you know, we talk about tears, we talk about episiotomies. And when I say that there’s no evidence base to support episiotomies and that the statement on discontinuing episiotomies came out years ago, they’re surprised. Right. Because no one has told them that because no one is going to update you on the evidence base.
And of course, as pelvic PTs, that’s what we do. Our due diligence is reading the research, but it’s not reaching the public.
So if we could reach the public today and just bust some of those myths and make things a little clearer about not being able to eat or drink, or episiotomies, or best care practices, what are the ones that are at the top of your list that you know are being perpetuated that are not evidence-based anymore in terms of giving birth?
17:52 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah, you know, I think a really recent one was with the ARRIVE study that came out a couple years ago, where inducing moms at 39 weeks, they had a decreased risk of a C-section than those who had an induction at 41 weeks. And so after that study came out, I was like, oh, I know exactly what’s going to happen, that all of these OBGYNs are going to latch onto this one study. It was a huge study, but the difference was 3% of people had a cesarean birth at 41 weeks versus if they were induced at 39 weeks. And I think that that was the only data point we were looking at versus we’re not seeing what percent of those moms had prolonged labors or pelvic floor dysfunction or trauma: physical, emotional, psychological.
So it was just like C-section, no C-section, right? And it was 3% of people versus looking at other aspects of, what’s the evidence on waiting? What’s the evidence on waiting till 40 weeks? What are the benefits of not inducing? I am a really just, I think in my own personal life and even in my clinical practice, a less is more person. I think that the less interventions we put on people in the birthing world, the better the outcome.
So late, you know, letting labor happen spontaneously, unless you are past 41 weeks or 40 weeks, if you have a higher risk pregnancy or you’re of, you know, a greater maternal age or, you know, doing the least intervention or least aggressive intervention possible. Maybe starting with a fully ballooned catheter to dilate the cervix, or cervidil, or cytotec versus starting with Pitocin, you know?
And so I just think that, using the most conservative options early and waiting longer likely has other benefits for pelvic health and emotional health than starting an induction. And that’s just the case for everybody when they hit 39 weeks. I just think it’s, we are so quick to medicalize everything. When I’m like, I really think that our bodies, if we just get out of the way sometimes, things happen the way that they’re supposed to.
And we’re there to support it and direct it and prevent really significant trauma, but not get in the way and try to steer it in the direction that we feel like it needs to go on a certain timeframe. And I just, I think we’ve really over-medicalized this practice.
20:20 Dr. Ginger Garner: We have, and that’s where it becomes very important to, like, The Business of Being Born was a documentary that came out so many years ago showing, and as I look, my bookshelf’s in front of me, and it’s covered with, you know, the birth books about born in the USA and all of the different books that talk about the medicalization of birth because it is the biggest money maker in the country. And that deserves a bit of a pause because when more interventions clearly show in the research that as soon as you begin to do those, your risk of complications automatically increase.
Just walking through the door of the hospital actually increases your risk for medical complications.
21:04 Dr. Sara Reardon: Isn’t that sad?
21:06 Dr. Ginger Garner: It is sad because, and then you contrast that with our midwifery outcomes, and you look at their C-section rates. You look at Ina May Gaskin’s C-section rate at the farm, and it’s nil. It barely exists. That’s not an accident. That’s because they’re doing what you’re saying, which is get out of the way, stop medicalizing birth, and teach women to be empowered during birth, which is one of my favorite things to do in practice is birth coaching and birth classes. Because you can see the shift in women and their partner’s faces as they realize, I don’t have to be hooked up to an IV. I don’t have to accept continuous fetal monitoring. I don’t have to just have an episiotomy. You mean I can actually choose?
21:53 Dr. Sara Reardon: Right.
21:54 Dr. Ginger Garner: And these are the pain management techniques that can be used. We don’t have to lean into things they may be uncomfortable with, that they have a choice. That’s a very powerful place to be. So yeah, that’s a very good point is to decreasing the medicalization because research shows us that it works and our bodies are built to birth. And they do it with the right support.
22:18 Dr. Sara Reardon: With the right support. And I think that that’s a big differentiator here. Is that it’s unfortunate that people have gone to unassisted births or, you know, I think home births are definitely an option for folks. It wasn’t something I was comfortable with, but it’s, we’re going to kind of the far end of the spectrum to just be able to avoid this whole system of medical care and hospitals.
But, you know, when I was preparing for my own birth for my first son, I, you know, you read the research, you go to these courses and you’re like, oh, people who have a doula have a less higher risk of a cesarean birth. They’re more likely to have a vaginal birth. They’re more likely to feel supported and have less trauma. And I was like, huh, well, you know, you and I are data nerds. So we’re like, well, that’s a great data point that I’m going to hang on to.
So instead of spending $1,500 paying an anesthesiologist for an epidural, I’m going to spend that money and invest in a doula. And it was a choice. And again, I have the privilege to be able to be for that and put money towards that, because unfortunately, it’s not covered by a lot of health insurance companies. But It was one of those things that I was like, even if I end up having whatever kind of birth, I at least want to feel like I put all the right pieces in place to just give me the best outcome possible.
And I didn’t have traumatic births. I didn’t, I had really great births. And I think part of it was like, I felt really prepared because of all of our knowledge. And that’s really when after my first birth, when I also started the Vagina Whisperer account, I was like, everybody deserves access to that information, not just me who happened to choose the right career, everybody. And so when it should be free, it should be like, hey, this is what you can do, and these are your options. So that was another kind of reason that I started the Vagina Whisperer, because I was like, I really think that if just more people had these resources, that they could have a better experience too.
24:10 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, absolutely. That’s so well said.
These tiny pieces of information build up exponentially and can make the difference between having a traumatic birth or having the one like you described to all of my births were wonderful. But I always emphasize when I’m talking to moms about it and in my practice that I actually had to go through kind of a heart wrenching process of firing two other practitioners before I found one that would actually support my pelvic floor. Yeah.
And my very simple, you know, not fussy birth plan, you know, because when I looked at the hospital practices, they were outdated.
24:57 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah.
24:58 Dr. Ginger Garner: And that’s something to also point out to people, I think, too, is that just because you love your practitioner does not mean the hospital is going to allow your practitioner to do what they want to do. Like in some cases, midwives’ hands are tied by whatever the OBGYNs are in control of.
‘ll give you one example, which shouldn’t even exist in the 20th century, but it does, is that one hospital that I obviously interviewed and then promptly fired, still mandated taking your infant. So there was no skin to skin care, kangaroo care, it was instant observation for one to two hours in the nursery away from you after birth. You had to be in lithotomy position, so feet up in stirrups, pushing uphill with a narrow pelvis, you know. Things like this still exist.
So, if we take one of those little pieces at a time, they add up to, you know, having a beautiful birth that you deserve and want. What are some of the favorite things, you know, based on that, based on guiding all of you guys listening towards better births for you and people you love, what are some of the favorite things that you like to teach and share?
26:10 Dr. Sara Reardon: You know, I think some of it is kind of higher level stuff. I think you pointed on it there. I was like, you have to find a practitioner that aligns with what you want. In the same way, for my first birth, my first pregnancy, I was with an OBGYN I loved. And I asked her, hey, what are your thoughts on having a doula? And I was 21 weeks pregnant. And she said, I feel like they just get in the way. And I was like, huh. And then I contacted my doula and I said, I need to find a new OB. Who do you recommend? Who do you work well with? And so she gave me the name of someone.
I switched providers. I switched hospitals. And then I ended up having the birth experience that was a better one for me.
26:46 Dr. Ginger Garner: You did the same thing too.
26:59 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah, the same thing, because you kind of have to, right? Like, if I would have been in that situation, and I mean, you can go online and look up cesarean birth rates of the hospitals. And I’m literally looking at them like, okay, that one, that one’s got a better one, you kno. And when I asked the other doctor, ‘Hey, what do you think about working with a doula?’ She’s like, ‘Oh, we work together all the time. It’s totally fine.’ You know, and that’s just such a difference in the energy that someone’s bringing into your experience.
27:11 Dr. Ginger Garner: And the respect for you.
27:12 Dr. Sara Reardon: And the respect. Yeah. So I think, you know, picking the right providers, I’m really big on proactive care. I mean, I think during the pregnancy period, I’m like, learn how to push, learn how to move, learn how to breathe. You know, it’s really difficult to do those things in a vulnerable time of birthing. So if you learn them before, I think it’s really helpful.
I think that I always say it’s like, you know, giving birth is like running, being pregnant is like running a marathon and giving birth is like running a two day sprint at the end. And we wouldn’t go into those physical endeavors without training. So why are we looking at this any differently. Like, you know, work on your body, adapt your body, work with someone who can help you during that pregnancy period, hopefully a pelvic health therapist and learn how to push, learn how to breathe, learn how to move, connect with your body so that when you’re in this position with eight people in the room and a mirror pointing towards your vulva telling you how to push, you’re not like, wait, how do I do that? You know, it’s like, just like anything else, if we practice, it gets easier.
28:18 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah. Just like an animal, you know, I think of deer that go off into the woods to find a peaceful place to give birth. We need the same thing. And if we’re stressed, what happens? Maybe it becomes hard to talk. Maybe the throat closes up a little bit. And as soon as that happens, the same thing happens downstairs. There’s this little ripple effect of kind of closing up the pelvic floor.
So if you think about how you process stress, you know, for the listener, that’s what happens during birth. And we want, we want you to be able to create the environment. If you look at the research on music, even, you know, bringing music into, you know, your labor and delivery, it actually improves not just pain perception for you. It actually increases the respect that the healthcare providers are providing to you in that room at that moment. So it shifts everyone.
29:13 Dr. Sara Reardon: That’s interesting.
29:14 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah, yeah it is. I took music in, I had a little experience.
29:18 Dr. Sara Reardon: I’m not surprised I know how much you love music.
21:21 Dr. Ginger Garner: During my first birth and practitioners kept coming in postpartum because I had a prenatal set list. And for those of you who are interested in it, you can look it up on my blog. But I had a prenatal, I had a labor and delivery, because you got to get serious, you know, playlist, and then I had a postpartum. And I noticed more practitioners were like coming through in the postpartum. And so I just, one stuck her head in and she wasn’t even my nurse. She was like, do you mind if I just sit for a second? I’m like, yeah, no problem. And then she said, I’m kind of embarrassed, but the front desk said you have to come in and sit for like a minute because it’s like a big chill pill.
30:03 Dr. Sara Reardon: Amazing. And imagine if your provider is like that, the energy they’re going to bring to your experience.
30:08 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember my midwife sitting down and a Sam Cooke song came on. Something probably like, um, a change is going to come or something like that. The one where he starts, I was born by a river, um, in a little tent, that song. And she just closed her eyes and she said, I’ve been up all night. And she just, she’s like, don’t mind me if I fall asleep for a minute, but she just put her head against the wall. She said, I love Sam Cooke. And she just started to breathe deeply. And So there’s something about that, of being able to bring your energy into the room, whether it’s music, maybe it’s like a piece of artwork you like, I don’t know, like think out of the box of what, you know, reduces your stress for you.
30:56 Dr. Sara Reardon: You know, this is interesting because for me, it was having no one there. It was my partner.
31:03 Dr. Ginger Garner: And you.
31:04 Dr. Sara Reardon: And my doula. and me, and we didn’t call family. We didn’t tell anybody I was even in labor because my in-laws lived in the city and we didn’t even, we called on a Monday morning and said, we had the baby. And they’re like, what? And I was like, last night, 4am, I went into labor on Sunday. Why didn’t you tell us?
Because I knew I don’t want anybody in the hospital waiting for me. I don’t want my husband leaving to go give reports or send text messages. Like I need to be fully present with myself and I need him to be fully present with me. So we’re just not going to tell anybody. And then when I have this baby, I have the baby, but like I knew myself and knew how anxious I get because I’m a people pleaser and I’m really social. And if somebody else was sitting in the room, I’d feel like I’d have to have conversation with them.
And so it was great. And I did it for both of them. For both of my births, I was just like, ‘Hey mom, FaceTiming, we had our kid.’ And she’s like, ‘What?’ So I think for me, it was in a very similar way. It’s not always bringing things in. It’s like, what can you keep out of the room that doesn’t bring the right energy for you as well? And I’m like, tell people that. I’m like, I give you permission to not have your in-laws in the room.
32:18 Dr. Ginger Garner: Sometimes we have to give ourselves permission to set boundaries, and I think that’s kind of what we’re talking about. The very first thing I set up, because music was such a pain reliever that allowed me to have three kids unmedicated, I couldn’t do it without it. That was my boundary, like, where’s the music? You’ve got to set that up first.
So whatever the boundary is, bringing something in, keeping something out, you know, not having the noisy environment or the overhead lights, declining checks every time someone comes into the room, like whatever that is, is important. And I think a lot of, and this is just listening to other women and people giving birth talk about, I don’t think a lot of people realize that they do have the rights and the power that they do.
33:10 Dr. Sara Reardon: Correct. Yeah, it’s a decision. And that’s why I’m kind of like, don’t be the passenger. Yeah, as much as you can. We sometimes we just have to be. But I think that as much as you can, at least be a part of the conversation instead of letting the conversation happen. And then they’re telling you what is going to happen. And I think that I think that’s the bigger piece about advocacy, kind of bring it back to that, that you kind of do have to advocate and have your own voice heard.
And even for somebody like myself, who’s so passionate about this and so informed, I had a hard time advocating for myself. And they’re like, do you want the Pitocin to push your placenta out? I’m like, I just had an unmedicated birth. Like, why do I need Pitocin?
They’re like, well, everybody gets it. And I’m like, I look at my doula and I go, do I have to have it? And she was like, can we just give her a little bit more time? And just having like, just that, like I still needed somebody to advocate for me because you don’t really know what’s going on and they’re just running through their standard protocol, but it’s not standard for you. And so I think that that advocacy piece is big.
34:10 Dr. Ginger Garner: Yeah. Knowing that you have a right to have rights is a big deal. Just that little thing that you described there of looking at your doula and saying, should we or should we not, is huge because most people just say this. Healthcare providers know best. I’m just going to say yes to whatever they offer, which is not the case. If we had a system that wasn’t paid to do more medical procedures, they weren’t paid based on how many medical procedures they could prescribe, but instead they were paid based on the value of what they offered, then we might have a different system. But right now, they’re going to offer you every single thing possible because it does run a bill up, frankly, and hospitals, you know, it’s big business, they get paid more money.
So we have to go in with an advocate. So whether you have a doula, or you get educated and you pick up some resources and books and we’ll talk about that in a minute. Whether you book some sessions in with your pelvic PT, or you do some of the programs that Sara has, whatever that is, you’re going to need more than just your own voice, I think, because it’s a little scary otherwise.
35:23 Dr. Sara Reardon: Very scary. It’s very scary.
35:24 Dr. Ginger Garner: Because when you’re in pain, you just want the pain to go away. And you’re not weak for that. You’re not weak for feeling like you’re passive when you’re in a vulnerable situation. The entire experience, prenatal to postpartum and beyond is all vulnerable.
And so I think that’s probably a good thing to talk about next is when you’re scared, when you know that our system currently isn’t aligned with less intervention, they’re inclined to do as much as possible. How can we advocate for ourselves? Where can we find the right resources so that we can embody the less is more? I don’t want more medical procedures and more complications. I want to be in control of my birth and control of my pain management, whatever I choose for it to be. What are some of those resources out there?
36:19 Dr. Sara Reardon: Yeah. So I think even, I mean, some of it is kind of, you know, global online, digital, and then some of it is really kind of in your own particular healthcare community. And again, I think finding healthcare professionals that align with what you want. Not everybody wants it unmedicated birth. I had a mom come in and she was like, I want a C-section. I didn’t love my first birth. My vagina is all jacked up. I I want a c-section.
And I was like, ‘Okay, well, let’s talk about that. Let’s prepare for that. Let’s prepare for that recovery. Let’s let’s go over what that’s going to look like. Let’s go over what your options are.’ You can have a family friendly one with a clear shield, you can have your partner there. Let’s just talk about that process so that you feel most supported in that birth experience, if that’s what you want.
So I do think that building a team is important. Whether it’s a lactation consultant, a pediatrician, a perinatal psychologist or counselor, a pelvic health therapist, a medical provider. But again, all of these things are costly. They’re not inexpensive.
But I think there are so many resources online now that you can access even for free. I mean, I think even Instagram accounts or YouTube channels, there’s just so much more information where we don’t have to go to one doctor and listen to everything that they say. You can literally Google search and find tons of options and you’ll start finding like, ‘oh, this sounds like something that I want,’ or ‘this is something that feels comfortable for me.’
And then the other thing is I would talk to other moms who had the birth experience that you’re looking for. I think that oftentimes we hear the scary stories and it’s, oh my gosh, I did this. And then this happened and you’re screwed. And this, I was like, no, that was not my experience. You know, it’s. And so I think that it is a lot of fear mongering that we hear a lot. Yeah. And, um, I think that for just as many scary stories, I think there’s just as many really positive, empowering stories. And I just want people to have access to both of those experiences, um, because they do exist.
So, I think I would start in your community. I would start in your mom group, your female group, your community group. And then I would even look online and go like ‘best resources for a natural birth.’ And, and I did that. I was like best book to have an unmedicated birth in the hospital and a book came up and that was like my Bible, you know?
38:38 Dr. Ginger Garner: There are so many resources and books out there. And certainly if you have questions about it and you’re like, I don’t even know what search terms to use, reach out. We can give you some search terms. It is, we’ve read the books and read the papers and we’ve experienced it between us, you know, nearly half a dozen times.
One thing that you pointed out that is a really good kind of touchstone for our time together here today is the fact that when you see birth portrayed or talked about in the media or in films or TV shows or whatever. It is very fear mongering based usually, like the majority of women have tears, so you’re going to tear. Not necessarily. You don’t have to do that, especially if you’ve prepared.
And by the way, your pelvic health therapist can help you with that because chances are, if you’ve had that, your risk does go down for that. So just because 86% or whatever someone wants to quote of women go on to tear, you’re also talking about the a population that hasn’t historically had access to conservative care, doulas, midwifery, pelvic health therapists that are trained in doing nothing but providing and being experts at conservative care to prevent all those things from happening.
We’re in a very kind of, it’s a lovely time to be alive, I think, because If you think about where birth came from in the 1900s, where hand washing between delivering babies was mocked, right? They just went from doing autopsies to delivering babies. In the early 1900s, if you read like the, the microfilm and the papers when I was doing research on that, it was incredible. And one of the first physicians to suggest that hand washing should happen, he was like excommunicated. Like he lost his license to practice from suggesting that germs could like jump from one person to another from your hands.
So we’ve gone from that to about 123 years later or so. It’s not that much time has passed since food and, you know, excuse me, food and drink was restricted since episiotomies were pretty much, you know, the standard practice. And we know that none of that is now. So we, it’s a wonderful time to give birth. It’s a wonderful time to have all of these conservative care options in front of us. But just know that just because what you see or hear on TV or, you know, from friends or even your provider, if it sounds scary, it doesn’t necessarily have to be. Totally. Or is even true.
41:28 Dr. Sara Reardon: And it’s, it’s interesting. Because I sat in the birth for my sister and I was not a good support person for her because it was kind of like, I could see what was happening. And I think my own emotions kicked in where I was like, okay, why is the Pitocin so high? Okay. Where’s her peanut ball. And it was like, she didn’t want any of that. She was just like, let me just chill, Sara. You know, I was trying to kind of put what I thought she wanted for her birth on her when she was like, I don’t really, I’m okay.
But the language, I remember her nurse and her doctor coming in and being like, oh, this baby’s occiput posterior. That’s going to be really hard to have a vaginal birth with that. And I took the nurse outside and I said, why would you say that? And she was like, well, it’s true. And I said, it’s not true. And I said, your words matter. If you would have said this baby’s occiput posterior, but I’m going to do everything I can to help you have the vaginal birth that you want. Why wasn’t that an option for you? Because words matter and the energy that you bring matters.
And placebo has a 30% effective rate for healing. So even if you just say, we’re going to do our very best to take care of you. That just changes the whole energy, even if the outcome is the same, the experience is different. And I think that that’s really what I want in our healthcare system is just recognizing that you may do 10 births in a day, but I do it once, maybe in my whole life, and like optimizing that experience for me.
And that the words that we use matter, the interventions that we use matter, the way that we talk to people, the way that we see people, the way that we treat people, it matters. And I think as pelvic health therapists, we’ve always had this luxury of time with patients to listen, to see them as individuals, to really handhold them through what can be a really difficult time in their life. And we have the best job. We have the best job. And I think that I just wish other people took some of those nuggets of how we communicate with people and started putting them into practice as well.
43:30 Dr. Ginger Garner: Oh, so well said. So well said. I think that desensitization is a word that probably describes what you are talking about because they just go from birth to birth to birth and forget how powerful of a position they are. Yeah, room. It’s an honor and a privilege to stand and now I’m going to get it’s an honor and privilege to be with a mom, you know, with a person giving birth, and ushering them through that total metamorphosis that happens. It just transcends anything else that you could experience.
And I think that our healthcare system has become kind of numb to that and not speaking for everyone, but we can all do better with our words. We can all choose more carefully what we choose, you know, that we’re emphasizing essentially. But I go back to that honor and privilege to be with someone who is giving birth to this little celestial being in the room is absolutely amazing.
44:37 Dr. Sara Reardon: It is. It really is.
44:40 Dr. Ginger Garner: So let’s talk about a little bit, you do so many things. I’m just borrowing this from like one of Glenn Doyle’s favorite phrases of, you know, doing hard things that describes motherhood in a nutshell, doing hard things. And you do a lot of those things as an entrepreneur, as a mom of two, you have a private practice, you have the, you know, your Instagram, fans, you have your new Vag Whisperer.com membership-based platform. It’s like mind-blowing. If you’re not watching this on YouTube, you’re like, what is she doing? There’s silence here. I’m doing the mind-blowing thing. That’s what I just did. How? How do you do that? Give us the secret.
45:32 Dr. Sara Reardon: You know, it’s a lot of work. I mean, it is a lot of work. You know, I think it’s, it really, when you mentioned earlier that it’s been an evolution to watch, it’s been an evolution to experience. I mean, I started a clinic in 2018 because I was working for a hospital that wanted me to work till 6:30 at night. And I have a three-month-old baby at home, and a two-year-old, and a husband who traveled. And I was like, I’m hiring a sitter so that I can go home, pick up my kids, bring them to a sitter for two hours, go back to see two patients who may or may not show. And then I was like, this is not sustainable for me.
I really was kind of like, I don’t really have another option, but I’d rather just work for myself two days a week and just see five or six people. And then it kind of slowly started evolving. And then I had one more therapist and then more team members. So it’s kind of always just been me kind of following the path that I feel like is like in front of me versus maybe I’m carving some of it, but I’m definitely walking down it.
But I can’t say I always am like, this is what I’m going to do. And this is what I’m going to build. I’m kind of just like figuring it out as I go along. And the needs of my patients changed, the needs of, you know, we saw during COVID. I mean, that’s really when I started my online platform was, oh my gosh, people don’t have these resources at home. And what we could do digitally and virtually just changed the way that we saw healthcare and that we saw pelvic healthcare.
And so it was really kind of people going, well, hey, I’m not able to see my therapist, what exercises can I do? Or, hey, I’m pregnant, like, what do you recommend for this? And it was like, people asking, and I’m like, okay, well, let’s come up with something that can meet that need. And so it was really all of those things.
And one, I think I’m really passionate about this. I think when you have patients come in that are telling you their stories, you can’t help but feel like we have to do better, we have to do more. Two, I have a really supportive partner. He is great. I mean, he’s, my husband is just, when I’m willing to take these risks and do all these things, he’s like, well, somebody’s got to have a stable job, Sara, so I’ll do that. And you pursue your passions in a vulva costume. I’m like, thank you.
But it’s also the seasons of my life where I wanted flexibility with my kids. And so I’m in my clinic a couple of days. I work from home a couple of days. I’m able to take time off to be with my kids and pick them up or go on a field trip. And I just have, I feel really lucky. Like I was watching something on social media this morning from a Peloton instructor. And she was like talking about her gratitude journal. And she was like, think of something in your life right now that you used to wish for.
And I’m like, wow, that is everything that I have right now. I have a beautiful family. I’m living back in my hometown of New Orleans where I never thought I’d live. I have this amazing platform that when I started it with 500 followers, I never could have imagined it became this. I’m seeing the change in our healthcare system, even though it’s just small, you know, little bitty bits of the needle moving, it’s moving. And just all of this really wonderful stuff. And it’s awesome, but it’s not happening. Like I am doing it at crazy hours of the night or in the morning or whenever, but yeah, it’s just, it’s just kind of evolving. I’m just following the path and it’s kind of, I’m evolving as this work is evolving too.
48:58 Dr. Ginger Garner: I think that comes from a really wonderful place of being able to just, um, it’s, it’s like a statement of gratitude, like a, like writing and I have a little journal, just a one line a day, which, you know, that’s, that’s like my low bar. Like, I just need to write one thing a day. Like, how did it go? I was grateful for this. And so to hear your story, it just feels like a practice in regular gratitude. Like this is what’s happening. Not sure what the future’s gonna bring, but I’m happy to be where I am right now and grateful for where I’ve come because we do often have to look back when we’re feeling down.
So that’s a really good stopping place to just take a break and say this, I think this is a good statement of summary, is to birth does not have to be scary. No, you don’t have to be afraid of it. Your bodies are built to birth. Just having the right support is helpful.
I think that if you’re looking for, no matter what kind of birth you’re looking to have or experience, the resources are out there for you. And we’re certainly happy to send you in that direction. I think that when we begin to be hard on ourselves, look back, see where we’ve come from, see what we’ve accomplished.
So that helps us take the next step towards what is unknown for all of us, but embracing the obvious passion for the whole perinatal experience for women and everybody that identifies as women is incredible because we do live in a system now where it’s too easy for women’s situation, their conditions to just be dismissed or not listened to.
And know that there are people out there that do listen to you and trust your gut. If it doesn’t feel right, then it’s not. It’s not right. If you feel not heard by a practitioner, then you’re probably right. Yeah, if you feel like something is not going well, and there’s not been a stone that’s been looked under, is there something under that rock to look at, you know, and find, then you’re probably right. So Yeah.
Sarah, thank you for all the work that you do to help moms feel empowered, to let them know that there are resources out there. Go and check out thevagwhisperer.com. If you’re in NOLA, then go check out the practice. I’m sure you guys do telehealth too, so you don’t actually have to just be there. We do. We do. Yeah, but most of us do since, you know, since COVID, but go check out those resources. And then I have a couple of like, kind of rapid fire final questions because…
52:02 Dr. Sara Reardon: All right, let’s do it. Yeah, okay. Favorite thing to do when you’re not fighting for the cause?
52:14 Dr. Sara Reardon: Play tennis.
52:15 Dr. Ginger Garner: Ooh. Okay. Play tennis.
52:17 Dr. Sara Reardon: My new post COVID hobby and it’s being outside, getting exercise and your brain is so focused on one thing. You’re not checking your phone. You don’t have kids coming up to you. You are just totally focused on one thing and it’s hard. It’s learning a new sport at the age of 40. So I am pushing myself outside of my comfort zone every time I go, which I think is huge for growth. Um, so yeah, that is my current favorite thing to do right now.
.
52:44 Dr. Ginger Garner: Do you have a favorite song right now?
52:47 Dr. Sara Reardon: Miley Cyrus, Flowers.
52:49 Dr. Ginger Garner: Flowers.All right. I’m going to have to head off and go listen to that.
52:52 Dr. Sara Reardon: My kids, when I turn it on, like I was headed somewhere recently and I was kind of nervous about it. I was heading to a conference and I was presenting and I was like, I just need to really get my head in a really good zone. And I just like put that song on and started like you know in my car by myself if anybody was driving by they probably saw me just jamming out. But it’s just a really awesome song and and I kind of love just regular pop music.
53:18 Dr. Ginger Garner: So yeah okay i gotta go listen to that one then.
53:20 Dr. Sara Reardon: Don’t judge me but it’s fun. It’s not Sam Cooke.
53:24 Dr. Ginger Garner: Oh my gosh. I’ve been listening to all kinds of stuff lately too. So, all right. I am going to go check that one out though. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
53:36 Dr. Sara Reardon: Thank you, Ginger. Thank you for having me. Thank you everyone for listening. I’m so appreciative. So it was a pleasure to be here.
53:42 Dr. Ginger Garner: All right. Take care, everybody.
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